Re: Kol Isha

[WINSTON WEILHEIMER <nusach...>]

ELIEZER...please forgive me, my comments were actually directed to Jordan.  
I like your pov....no I have not heard her work...does she have recordings 
(getting back to jewish music topic...and an email address where i can see 
if she would like to be on the show?
winston
*********************************************************

>From: "Eliezer Kaplan" <zelwel (at) earthlink(dot)net>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Kol Isha
>Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:38:00 -0600
>
>Winston-
>     If you want my pov, go back into the archives the last time this topic
>came up, & you'll find it there.
>     I'm Orthodox (at least if one wants to make arbitrary divisions, and 
>try
>and label deeply held personal beliefs which develop over lifetimes, one
>could probably call me that),  I think the Kol Isha thing is idiotic 
>(please
>don't blast me, Jordan- I'm not trying to start a flame war- I'm just 
>trying
>to be realistic and relevant to the world we live in), and I personally
>don't observe the restriction.
>     My wife tells a story about a family that always would always cut the
>corners off the roast before putting it the oven. One day, someone thought
>to ask Grandma if she knew why it was done- her answer? Because her
>grandma's pan was shaped that way. Sometimes the institutionalized piece of
>a religion can be like that.
>     On the other hand (and, 99.9% of the time there IS an other hand) our
>father's traditions are in our hands- it's not a simple thing to change
>traditions, though, over the course of time, like it or not, guys (and
>gals), they do change.
>     As far as female vocalists go, have I mentioned Abida Parveen? Sings
>like an angel...
>                                     EK
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "WINSTON WEILHEIMER" <nusach (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 12:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Kol Isha
>
>
> > Do we REALLY want to get into this discussion further on this list...im
> > willing, but there are other lists more appropriate.  Eliezer, an
> > observtion.  If you do not wish to share your own personal views, simply
> > don't comment on these issues.  when you reply, you are bound to be 
>asked
>to
> > comment from your pov.
> >
> > As to those on the list who are offended by KOL ISHA issue, (as I am) I 
>am
> > perfectly willing to let those in the orthodox community continue to 
>live
>in
> > the past and suggest that women boycott their functions on the basis of
>the
> > protest!  It won't matter to them, cause don't want you there in the 
>first
> > place.
> > winston
> > ***********************************************************************
> >
> > >From: "Eliezer Kaplan" <zelwel (at) earthlink(dot)net>
> > >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> > >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > >Subject: Re: Kol Isha
> > >Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:30:06 -0600
> > >
> > > > In my view (and many others agree), Judaism has survived only 
>because
>it
> > >has
> > > > accepted change,
> > >
> > >Marvin- 2 words- Intermarriage Rate. I don't think Judaism is really
> > >surviving in America!
> > >                     EK
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Marvin" <physchem (at) telocity(dot)com>
> > >To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > >Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 10:03 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Kol Isha
> > >
> > >
> > > > To show where I "come from" on this matter, I'm a Reform Jew who
> > > > has studied Torah (my mixed male/female group finished the last of 
>the
> > >five
> > > > books late last year, after spending an hour most weeks for more 
>than
> > >four
> > > > years with our Rabbi, reading and debating line by line), but not
> > >Talmud.
> > >I
> > > > respect the differing views of other Jews, but I don't accept claims
> > >some
> > > > make that their views are the only legitimate ones, or that it has
> > >"always
> > > > been that way".  I especially resent those who say I'm not Jewish.
> > >Perhaps
> > > > they need to be reminded that, not matter how observent thay are,
>there
> > >is
> > > > always someone who thinks he is holier.
> > > >
> > > > A couple of years ago, the question of who Jacob wrestled with came 
>up
> > >on
> > >a
> > > > Jewish humor newsgroup.  I made the comment that in a modern 
>context,
> > > > considering the circumstances surrounding Jacob's experience, one
>might
> > >say
> > > > that he wrestled with his conscience.  I quickly got an e-mail
>informing
> > >me
> > > > that only rabbis are allowed to make such comments.  I mention that
>only
> > >as
> > > > an example of the kind of thinking I won't accept.
> > > >
> > > > In my view (and many others agree), Judaism has survived only 
>because
>it
> > >has
> > > > accepted change, most notably when the priesthood lost out to the
> > >rabbis.
> > > > The change is still going on, and one modern aspect is the growing
> > >rights
> > >of
> > > > women.  When they want to, even the most Orthodox rabbis manage to
>find
> > > > reason to change halachah.  In terms of women singing, I understand
>that
> > > > more than half the cantorial students for the last several years 
>have
> > >been
> > > > women, and they are accepted by both Conservative and Reform
> > >congregations.
> > > > The numerically prevailing view among congregation rabbis in the US
> > >supports
> > > > women as cantors, which doesn't mean that all rabbis must accept 
>them.
> > > >
> > > > I don't automatically give in to those who wish to control a group
> > >(e.g.,
> > >a
> > > > concert) by objecting that an activity isn't allowed under the rules
> > >that
> > > > they follow.  There are other interpretations by rabbis who are well
> > > > qualified.  I wouldn't force anyone to violate his principles, but 
>the
> > > > person who is offended can leave the room.
> > > >
> > > > Conflicts of laws and rights occur in other contexts, and in the 
>U.S.
> > >there
> > > > is a principle often stated as "your rights end at the tip of my
>nose".
> > > >
> > > > Marvin Margoshes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
>
>

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