Re: Fw: Kol Isha

[TROMBAEDU <TROMBAEDU...>]

In a message dated 2/18/01 9:46:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, media (at) 
kamea(dot)com 
writes:


> I meant no disrespect by not naming you
> specifically as a person who made a strong Halakhik argument in the
> past.
> But, as Shirona so eloquently and passionately stated  in her second
> posting ,
> your argument is after all, "self-referential" and "the party lin."
> 
> 

Wolf, you know I am not concerned that you did not disagree with me by name. 
Orthodoxies by their nature have to rely on themselves to be valid, so I 
guess in a way Shirona has a point. But part of the self referential nature 
of the Halachic system ties it to Mesorah..a handing down from generation to 
generation the tradition by which Jewish people live. The Mesorah itself is a 
validating argument for Orthodox thinking, as it is part of Mesorah that 
Mesorah would be followed. Hmm..I guess I have to grant you the circularity, 
but I am comfortable with the idea that I am at the receiving end of a great 
chain going back 2000 years.
Now, as to the question of injustice. I am trying to avoid discussing this 
issue on the merits, not because I don't believe there are any, but because 
my main source of distress s the nature of Shirona's protest. Her argument is 
basically, "it is my opinion that women should be able to sing in front of 
whomever they wish, and anybody who says otherwise is misogynistic, and since 
Orthodox thought places restrictions on Women, Orthodoxy is wrong." That is 
no less circular an argument. One would have to prove every point in that 
argument independently in order for it to be justified in casually dismissing 
Orthodox thinking. That does not mean that there is nothing worth discussing 
here!  It only means that I find it offensive to dismiss a 2000 year old 
Halachic tradition, using negative stereotypes and belligerent language, 
(really! Taliban?) based on transient current opinions about social justice, 
especially where the Orthodox position is being misrepresented because the 
automatic negative response current in all walks of life today to anything 
that does not give full license to individual whim does not allow for 
investigation of and reflection on the development and reasoning of the 
Halachot in question. 
It is a very attractive argument to say that where injustice is being 
committed, cut through the red tape, and free the oppressed. In a society 
like Judaism, governed by rule of law, it is not so simple. If we disregard 
due process every time we need to come up with a quick fix, we will so weaken 
the fabric of the law that it will cease being able to fulfill its function. 
Adherents of Torah, be they Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform, believe that 
function to be the betterment of ourselves, as individuals and as a society. 
Due process requires more historical patience, but the end result is always 
more strong and long lasting then rule by whim. Even whim whose basis is 
correct.
I have deliberately not exposed my personal view on Kol Isha, or for that 
matter, the general issue of Women's Right' s in Halacha, because I think 
they are besides the point. I will discuss them of List.
Wolf, and anyone else listening, I harbor nothing but the deepest respect for 
you as a person, and nothing I say is meant in any way as a personal attack. 
I think you know that, but I want to make sure everyone else does too.

Zei Gezunt,

Jordan