Re: Kol Isha

Dear Jordan:

I love being Jewish. I believe that HaShem gave me a heart and mind and talent and the ability and the perserverance to use it. Am I offensive... nishts. Am I passionate? I certainly hope so. If you believe that halachically or otherwise that women are treated fairly through these kinds of restrictions on movement and thought...I suggest you come back as a Jewish woman and see if you enjoy this kind of thing. Is this enough now? Anybody who knows me, knows that I have a good heart and a generous spirit. Believe whatever you want...I fully intend on believing just what I want. And ahemmm since when is the idea that HaShem loves everyone and encourages and grants creativity offensive??? With tongue firmly planted in cheek I suggest that you have your rachmones(empathy) meter check...clearly the batteries are running low.

Shalom,

Trudi

>From: Jordan Hirsch

>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org

>To: World music from a Jewish slant

>Subject: Re: Kol Isha

>Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:21:07 -0500

>I agree that the rules are more fluid than some might admit. what was

>offensive about Trudi's post was not the passion, which is certainly not

>mine to judge, but the suggestion that there is something inherently

>illegitimate about Rabbinic tradition that does not have the backing of a

>specific divine revelation. That flies in the face of what to the longest

>standing community of Ashkenazic Jews is a basic tenet, namely the right of

>Rabbis to interpret the Torah, even at the risk of misunderstanding of God's

>intention.

>That does not mean that think Trudi is mean spirited, only that she

>expressed an argument that only only be characterized as such.

>Jordan

>TTova wrote:

> > Not mean spirited..... perhaps just fiercely passionate.

> > not sure what would offend you in Trudi's POV

> > This is a such a struggle for many of us.

> > To have our mothers fight so hard to be treated with respect and

> > equality and yet to have this sexist attitude prevail is scary.

> >

> > I met a chassid in Paris who after learning what I did informed me he

> > would get 200 yiddish speaking jews out to hear me sing...

> > I said " but of course you won't come yourself"?

> > he then smiled and said he would do whatever he felt like doing.... and

> > if he wanted to hear a woman sing he would,

> > At Ashkenaz, my husband told me that at the back of the crowd of almost

> > 5000 there was a religious man with tsitses shucking and jiving to my

> > Yiddish rendition of Los es Shnayen, Los es Shnayen, Los es Shnayen.

> > So I suppose as in most living traditions which must grow with the

> > times there are no hard and fast rules?....

> >

> > http://www.theresatova.com

> > On Jan 18, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Jordan Hirsch wrote:

> >

> > > Ari,

> > > I think this is one of those mean spirited posts over which you were

> > > concerned.

> > > I am deeply offended that it made it to the list.

> > >

> > > Jordan

> > >

> > > Trudi Goodman wrote:

> > >

> > >>

> > >> Here's the deal and here's the dance. As a woman performer I refuse to

> > >> abide by Kol Isha. I consider it a man-made law and not a G-d made

> > >> law. When people, particularly men, who have a vested interest in

> > >> wanting to keep women in their place religiously and culturally start

> > >> siting law to substantiate their views...well all I can say is there

> > >> isn't any reason why people should put up with it.

> > >>

> > >> If you can show me that HaShem doesn't want women to sing around men

> > >> and male children. That HaShem has actually leaned into your ear and

> > >> told you that for an absolute fact...then I'll listen.

> > >>

> > >> Otherwise, it's just speculation. And I refuse to believe that HaShem

> > >> would want half of society to not fulfill themselves creatively and

> > >> personally in any setting. HaShem is all about love NOT

> > >> narrow-mindedness.

> > >>

> > >> I grew up around Orthodoxy and Chassidism...when there is a woman

> > >> rabbi and/or cantor in those reigious traditions then I'll actually

> > >> feel like I want to listen to this type of woman-hating. woman

> > >> adversation behavior masquerading as religious thought. And address

> > >> it!

> > >>

> > >> Hey if the men don' like the women's voices WHY DON'T THEY GET UP AND

> > >> LEAVE???

> > >>

> > >> Darned presumptious to think that a woman OUGHT to!

> > >>

> > >> Hey, there's a reason why some people, myself included stopped

> > >> addressing the Kol Isha issue on this list...it's not my experience

> > >> that this issue will be resolved. It hasn't been in the Jewish

> > >> community, specifically or at large.

> > >>

> > >> Shalom,

> > >>

> > >> Trudi Goodman

> > >>

> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > >> -

> > >> Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.

> > >

> >