Re: Kol Isha

[Jordan Hirsch <trombaedu...>]

I agree that the rules are more fluid than some might admit. what was
offensive about Trudi's post was not the passion, which is certainly not
mine to judge, but the suggestion that there is something inherently
illegitimate about Rabbinic tradition that does not have the backing of a
specific divine revelation. That flies in the face of what to the longest
standing community of Ashkenazic Jews is a basic tenet, namely the right of
Rabbis to interpret the Torah, even at the risk of misunderstanding of God's
intention.
That does not mean that think Trudi is mean spirited, only that she
expressed an argument that only only be characterized as such.

Jordan


TTova wrote:

> Not mean spirited..... perhaps just fiercely passionate.
> not sure what would offend you in Trudi's POV
> This is a such a struggle for many of us.
> To have our mothers fight so hard to be treated with respect and
> equality and yet to have this sexist attitude prevail is scary.
>
> I met a chassid in Paris who after learning what I did informed me he
> would get 200 yiddish speaking jews out to hear me sing...
> I said " but of course you won't come yourself"?
> he then smiled and said he would do whatever he felt like doing.... and
> if he wanted to hear a woman sing he would,
> At Ashkenaz, my husband told me that at the back of the crowd of almost
> 5000 there was a religious man with tsitses shucking and jiving to my
> Yiddish rendition of Los es Shnayen, Los es Shnayen, Los es Shnayen.
> So I suppose as in most living traditions which must grow with the
> times there are no hard and fast rules?....
>
> http://www.theresatova.com
> On Jan 18, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Jordan Hirsch wrote:
>
> > Ari,
> > I think this is one of those mean spirited posts over which you were
> > concerned.
> > I am deeply offended that it made it to the list.
> >
> > Jordan
> >
> >
> > Trudi Goodman wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's the deal and here's the dance. As a woman performer I refuse to
> >> abide by Kol Isha. I consider it a man-made law and not a G-d made
> >> law. When people, particularly men, who have a vested interest in
> >> wanting to keep women in their place religiously and culturally start
> >> siting law to substantiate their views...well all I can say is there
> >> isn't any reason why people should put up with it.
> >>
> >> If you can show me that HaShem doesn't want women to sing around men
> >> and male children.  That HaShem has actually leaned into your ear and
> >> told you that for an absolute fact...then I'll listen.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, it's just speculation.  And I refuse to believe that HaShem
> >> would want half of society to not fulfill themselves creatively and
> >> personally in any setting.  HaShem is all about love NOT
> >> narrow-mindedness.
> >>
> >> I grew up around Orthodoxy and Chassidism...when there is a woman
> >> rabbi and/or cantor in those reigious traditions then I'll actually
> >> feel like I want to listen to this type of woman-hating. woman
> >> adversation behavior masquerading as religious thought. And address
> >> it!
> >>
> >> Hey if the men don' like the women's voices WHY DON'T THEY GET UP AND
> >> LEAVE???
> >>
> >> Darned presumptious to think that a woman OUGHT to!
> >>
> >> Hey, there's a reason why some people, myself included stopped
> >> addressing the Kol Isha issue on this list...it's not my experience
> >> that this issue will be resolved. It hasn't been in the Jewish
> >> community, specifically or at large.
> >>
> >> Shalom,
> >>
> >> Trudi Goodman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >> Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
> > </html>
>

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