Re: kol isha in action

[Dan Jacobs <dan...>]

Lori,

I agree with your sentiment here, however Kashrut does not make sense and
also most of the Kashrut laws are Rabbinical.

The point of Kol Isha is not about offending a man, it is about 'arousal'
apparently as a man, I can't listen to you sing in case I get aroused and
as we know, Men have no self control!

Regards,

Dan

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Lori Cahan-Simon wrote:

> I don't think that using kashrut is a parallel example.  If you go to an
> event with kosher food, everyone can still eat it.  Kashrut is spelled
> out in the Torah.  Kol Isha was created by a human.  Kashrut has made
> sense for many reasons in many times in history.  Kol Isha does not make
> sense.  I understand that many people abide by it.  Shall I say that
> people of African descent and women were not allowed to vote in this
> country by law, and that people abided by it and so we should respect
> that and not try to change it?  It was wrong.  Again, I challenge
> someone to tell me how my woman's voice offends, aside from stating that
> it is Halacha.
> Lorele
>
> avi finegold wrote:
>
> >--- Dan Jacobs <dan (at) caliginous(dot)com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>It's not a custom it's Jewish law (a law that is
> >>offensive and
> >>un-necessary),
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >youre right about the law part but what makes you
> >think you have the right to pass judgement for
> >orthodoxy on relative offensiveness and unnecesariness
> >
> >that may be the case for you but plenty of people dont
> >find it to be the case.
> >as contentious an issue as it may be, many people
> >still view it as an integral part of halacha, whether
> >or not you approve of it. for most people this doesnt
> >interfere with their everyday life and they dont shove
> >it into peoples faces, they simply dont go to events
> >where this might pose a problem for them. now you have
> >to admit that when someone is organizing an event they
> >have to take into consideration that they have to
> >accomodate any people that they are inviting to the
> >event. im not talking about people they might sell
> >tickets to, i refer here to people whom theyve
> >specifically said that they would like to see there as
> >a guest of honour or something else along those lines.
> >why cant you see it as a case of some people eat
> >kosher and therefore when those people go to events
> >people provide appropriate food solutions for them. in
> >this case some people cannot allow themselves
> >halachically to hear a woman singing and therefore a
> >concession must be made to ensure that no one will
> >feel uncomfortable.
> >
> >im not saying that i think its a wonderful or terrible
> >halacha im just saying that some people (regardless of
> >their personal viewpoint about the halacha as well),
> >abide by it and its not right to state that they are
> >in the wrong just for being orthodox the way they
> >believe orthodoxy is meant to be.
> >
> >
> >avi
> >
> >
> >
> >so you need to give it a little more
> >
> >
> >>respect than that.
> >>The best way to handle a situation like this is to
> >>educate yourself and others.
> >>
> >>The fact is that there are strong halachik (Jewish
> >>Legal) arguments
> >>against Kol Isha, i.e. that listening to a woman's
> >>voice is not a problem,
> >>understanding what these are and being able to
> >>present them when necessary
> >>would be a more constructive approach then being
> >>dismissive.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Eliezer Kaplan wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Love,
> >>>>
> >>>>Rosa Parks
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Maybe that's what's gotta happen. Maybe some
> >>>
> >>>
> >>community needs to have it in
> >>
> >>
> >>>their face and take it upon themselves to realize
> >>>
> >>>
> >>that in our times living
> >>
> >>
> >>>in our world this is ridiculous and to set a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>precedent for changing the
> >>
> >>
> >>>custom. And why do I feel so much like that old
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Steve Martin character on
> >>
> >>
> >>>Saturday Night Live saying it?
> >>>
> >>>                            EK
> >>>
> >>>www.zelwel.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> - Dan Jacobs
> >> - 07956 246 659
> >>
> >>---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >>---------------------+
> >>