Re: Kol Isha amd Sheyndele Oyaher z"l

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

The other day I learned of the passing of Moyshe Oysher's sister, Freydele.
She sang with her brother in concerts of liturgical and other music under
the name Freydele di Khaznte. The audiences were male and female. And the
posters for these concerts were tacked up in the lobby of our local Orthodox
shuls in Brownsville..

There were other khazntes  as well (this was in the 40's, my earliest
memories) - Sheyndele di Khaznte, et al, usually family of famous khazonim.

I grew up in a diversified almost all Jewish environment which included
black hat/shaytl frum to Communists and anarchists. Yet there was stuff I
never encountered until recently -- I suspect that the neo-Orthodox baale
tshuve folks have gone way, way further than our most fervent frume mentshn.

Men and women danced in the same room, (sometimes together, sometimes with
handkerchiefs, sometimes in separate circles) women vocalists appeared with
the Klezmer bands (although they mostly sang pop tunes), even at very
religious weddings -- the exception being in Williamsburg. I think of it as
being "frumer than thou". And as for KI - it first came up in my life just a
few years ago here in Baltimore, when my Yiddish Club was refused a space in
the social club area of a synagogue run by Baale Tchuve - because, Heaven
forfend, there might be a KI situation.

And then there was last year's round of KI mail.

Sylvia Schildt
Baltimore, Maryland


on 1/18/04 12:04 PM, Shirona at shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net wrote:

> Jordan I agree with you that we all need to be respectful!  But I strongly
> disagree about "not probing into motives", as you requested below. Aren't
> our motives even more important then our actions?  Aren't our motives the
> true indicator as to "where are we coming from"?  It's as if the women on
> this list are collectively asking the men on this list  ( just for
> argument's sake... I'm not presuming to speak for others...;-)  "where are
> you REALLY coming from when you invoke the Kol Isha laws to prevent us from
> singing in public, from earning a living as Cantor's or Singers...  The
> question is really - "what are your TRUE motives, not the actual "laws" you
> are invoking".  I realize this is a tough question, and that not too many
> men want to even "go there".
> 
> But do you agree that it IS a valid question?  Please answer...
> 
> May I share a personal experience?  Two years ago I was asked by a
> Conservative congregation to be their Cantor for the HH - and gave me a
> contract for this position - before I even knew any of the Nusach.  This
> congregation was familiar with the music I compose and with my singing, and
> they trusted that I would do a good job. I studied for about six months with
> Hazzan Sam Weiss (our very own...) who prepared me wonderfully for this
> awesome task. (Hi Sam!)  It was the first time this very old, Connecticut
> congregation had a female Cantor.  After the first day the rabbi told me
> this - "I see why men didn't want women to sing at services - they were
> insecure and feared that they could never sing to G-d as beautifully as
> women".  Old folks came up to me and told me that for 40 years they've been
> coming to this Shul on HH - and that for the first time were actually moved
> to FEEL the meaning of the T'filot.
> 
> Here's the point I'm getting at: While up there on the Bimah, with no
> choir or musical instruments - I truly felt like a Shliach Tzibur.  I didn't
> feel like a "woman" - and certainly didn't feel like a man...;-)  although I
> did sing the Hineni words as written - as if I had a long beard and all...I
> just felt like a PERSON  praying with all my heart and doing my best to
> illuminate the texts with music and give meaning to every word - for the
> sake of the community and myself. Being male or female had nothing to do
> with it!  Being male or female is only ONE aspect of our being - and it
> shouldn't (in my opinion) be the central factor of how we worship G-d.
> 
> Shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> www.shirona.com
> www.cdbaby.com/shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jordan Hirsch" <trombaedu (at) earthlink(dot)net>
> To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Kol Isha
> 
> 
>> That is also a good point. But that is not the issue. All i am asking
> for is a
>> little more respect, and a little less probing of motives for its
> adherents.
>> 
>> Jordan
>> 
>> Eliezer Kaplan wrote:
>> 
>>> Jordan said:
>>> 
>>>> Is Kol Isha a man made interpretation of Ervah? Perhaps, but no part
> of
>>>> Halachic and Talmudic tradition ever claimed otherwise. In fact, the
> idea
>>> of
>>>> Rabbinic interpretation overriding Heavenly decrees is firmly
> entrenched
>>> in
>>>> Jewish tradition. one does not need the voice of God whispering in
> his or
>>> her
>>>> ear to decide what halacha requires.
>>> 
>>> The rabbis are human- what if they make a horrible mistake? Is that
> beyond
>>> imagining or considering?
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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