Re: Fw: Kol Isha

[Richard Green <rmarkgreen...>]

Kol Isah is simply another backward, repressive, unilateral Orthodox
belief.  Why is a women's voice nakedness and not a man's?  Most of the bad 
music written and sung, especially in the secular world is written by men 
not women.
     I have all 4 of Neshama Carlebach's recordings and have seen her in 
person several times.  She has a wonderful voice.  Personally,
I feel so sorry for her that she has to perform in the narrow Orthodox 
world.  If her secular music takes hold for general audiences perhaps
she will be able to break free from the problems that we have in the Jewish 
world.
    From what I know, Debbie Friedman performs mostly to reform and 
conservative audiences.


>From: TROMBAEDU (at) aol(dot)com
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Fw: Kol Isha
>Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:30:26 EST
>
>In a message dated 2/17/01 1:30:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net writes:
>
>
> > Reflections on a controversial issue that effects many who are involved 
>in
> > Jewish Music.
> >
> >
>
>Shirona,
>Quite frankly, there is nothing about your letter that suggests any
>reflection.
>Kol Isha is a complex Halachic topic, and as it dates back at least to the
>time of the Talmud, it deserves serious consideration, not automatic
>dismissal based on our 21st century attitudes towards rights and
>entitlements. Whether it fits into our current mores or not, the 
>prohibitions
>regarding Kol Isha are the product of the Halacha system. If a person 
>chooses
>not to observe halacha, he or she is certainly entitled, but for those of 
>us
>who do observe Halacha, a hasty rejection of the validity of a Halachic
>principle is no less offensive than the principle itself is to you. People
>who believe Torah and Halacha are inherently holy do not automatically 
>assume
>that current ethical and moral principles are preeminent to the point of
>rejection of our tradition. For those who are less engaged with Western
>culture, that may take the form of outright rejection of current opinions 
>on
>the matter, and thus, not even call into question the centrality of Kol 
>Isha
>to an understanding of the place of women. While that may be odd or 
>ludicrous
>to you, it is part of these people's deeply held religious beliefs. These 
>are
>not unintelligent, spiteful, or misogynistic people. They just judge
>differently how to treat people with respect and sensitivity.
>For those of us who observe Halacha, but are engaged with the Western 
>world,
>these questions do carry with them more complex and nuanced understandings.
>I cannot discuss this with you more onlist without discussing my personal
>practice, which at this time I prefer not to do, but feel free to contact 
>me
>offlist and I will be glad to discuss this issue as fully as I can.
>As far as the idea of Kol Isha Ervah goes, I will just add two points. One 
>is
>that even within the Halachic community, there is a wide variety of opinion
>on the subject.
>Two, perhaps instead of looking for reasons to be insulted by the Orthodox,
>perhaps one might consider that in their own way, they are concerned with 
>the
>problem of the objectification of women, as much as the most ardent 
>feminist
>is.
>
>Jordan Hirsch

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