Re: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

Elliot,

Thanks for the list of suggested books.

According to amazon.com, the Werner is out of print, while the Fromm
may be available.

Is the Idelsohn, A.Z.: Jewish Music... an actual 3rd edition or only a
3rd printing of the original additon?

I ask because amazon.com lists it as a reprint edition (July 1992) of
535 pages, and my Schocken copy (a Second Printing, 1972) is also 535
pages.

Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU <elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Cc: elkahn <elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music


>May I suggest the following books for a solid grounding in the
history,
>aesthetics and musical language of Jewish music?
>
>Idelsohn, A.Z. Jewish music in its historical development, 3rd
edition,
>NY: Dover, 1992.
>
>Gradenwitz, Peter. The music of Israel, 2nd edition, Portland:
Amadeus
>Press, 1996. (Don't use the first edition)
>
>Werner, Eric. A voice still heard: the sacred songs of the Ashkenazic
>Jews, University Park: Penn. State Press, 1976.
>
>Heskes, Irene. Passport to Jewish music, Westport, Conn.: Greenwood
Press,
>1994.
>
>Some excellent out of print sources which we have at the Library of
the
>Jewish Theological Seminary:
>
>Fromm, Herbert. On Jewish Music: a composer's view, NY: Bloch, 1978.
>
>Rothmueller, Aaron-Marko. The music of the Jews: an historical
>appreciation, South Brunswick: T. Tosseloff, 1967.
>
>Saminsky, Lazare. Music of the ghetto and the bible, NY: Bloch, 1934.
>
>I can't recommend the Saminsky or the Fromm book highly enough for
those
>of you interested in what constitutes "Jewish Music." This is a very
old
>discussion that dates back -- in our time, anyway -- to the turn of
the
>century.
>
>I am not familiar with Mark Slobin's TENEMENT SONGS, but this also
might
>be a valuable resource for the study of American Yiddish Theatre
music.
>
>The Nulman ENCYCLOPEDIA OF JEWISH MUSIC has its value as a general
>reference but -- be forewarned -- it did not receive kind reviews
from
>Jewish musicologists when it first appeared.
>
>Hope this is helpful,
>
>Eliott Kahn
>Music Archivist
>Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary
>3080 Broadway
>New York, NY 10027
>
>
>On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, robert wiener wrote:
>
>> I've been on the lookout for Jewish Music books over the years, so
I
>> have both Idelsohn books and Nulman's Concise Encyclopedia of
Jewish
>> Music.  What other books are considered good for a library on the
>> topic above in particular (and Jewish music in general)?
>>
>> Bob
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com <richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com>
>> To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 5:22 PM
>> Subject: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>>
>>
>> >My understanding is that Idelsohn's 2 books, Jewish Music and
Jewish
>> Liturgy are
>> >basic texts.
>> >
>> >Cantor Macy Nulman, indirectly a mentor of mine, has several books
on
>> the
>> >subject, too.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Rich Wolpoe
>> >
>> >______________________________ Reply Separator
>> _________________________________
>> >Subject: Re: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>> >Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> at Tcpgate
>> >Date:    12/28/98 1:09 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >Richard,
>> >
>> >Idelsohn has a chapter "Song of the Synagogue" in Jewish Music.
I've
>> >also heard that Eric Werner is good to read on the relationship
>> >between Jewish and Christian music, but I don't have any of his
books
>> >yet.  Should I?
>> >
>> >I believe that I've also heard the "Maoz Tsur" melody used in a
>> record
>> >of a seder from Northern Africa (perhaps Fez, Morrocco).  I wish I
>> >knew how it got there.  It's fascinating how these tunes can
travel.
>> >
>> >Bob
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com <richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com>
>> >To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>> >Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 11:52 AM
>> >Subject: Re: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>> >
>> >
>> >>I believe Idelson discusses the origins of Jewish liturgical
music.
>> >>
>> >>Just as a general rule, it is often the case that the jewish
litrugy
>> >aand the
>> >>Xtian liturgy BOTH adapted from common folk melodies rather than
>> >directly from
>> >>each other.
>> >>
>> >>EG the traditional Maoz Tsur melody is also used as a Lutheran
hymn.
>> >The most
>> >>likely explanation is that both Jews and Lutherans adapted their
>> >respective
>> >>meoldies from a popular German marching song, rahter than from
one
>> >another.
>> >>
>> >>Regards,
>> >>Rich Wolpoe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>______________________________ Reply Separator
>> >_________________________________
>> >>Subject: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>> >>Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> at Tcpgate
>> >>Date:    12/27/98 5:39 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Is there any material (e.g., books, articles, dissertations,
>> >>discographies) on Jewish musical themes in classical music,
>> >especially
>> >>the less obvious compositions?  I do think that I saw something
in
>> >the
>> >>Jewish Theological Seminary collection of dissertations from the
>> >>Cantorial School, but it was basically on the more obvious
>> >>copositions, e.g., Bloch.
>> >>
>> >>I would also be especially interested in material on the use of
>> >>non-Jewish themes, popular or classical, in Jewish liturgical
music
>> >>(besides the Aleinu tunes and Adon Olam settings to popular
song).
>> >>
>> >>Bob
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>