Re: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music

[Judy Fertig <fertig...>]

Bob:
I don't own all these books either. Wish I could though! But book
collecting is an expensive habit, (as is music collecting and score
collecting!!). Hey, that's part of  what libraries are for, anyway, right :-)?
Judy.


At 01:19 PM 12/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>And I thought I had an OK library!
>
>Thanks Elliot and Judy for making me (us?) aware of the treasures out
>there.
>
>Bob
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Judy Fertig <fertig (at) brandeis(dot)edu>
>To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 12:06 PM
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>
>
>>Bob:
>>Here's my $.02......
>>Speaking of reprint books:
>>Did anyone mention Albert Weisser's Modern Renaissance of Jewish
>Music?
>>
>>Other books:
>>A "must have" for those who study synagogue music: I especially like
>Amnon
>>Shiloah's Jewish Musical Traditions and Joseph Levine's Synagogue
>Song in
>>America.
>>
>>And no one mentioned Mark Slobin's Chosen Voices? It's really a
>wonderful
>>read as well as a good history of the cantorate in America. Its full
>of
>>colorful anecdotes and quotes from sources of the day giving a zesty
>and
>>often amusing picture of early Jewish life in America.
>>
>>And the awesome book by Macy Nulman: Concepts of Jewish Music and
>Prayer.
>>(out of print?-- does anyone have a copy of this available?)
>>Hanoch Avernary's Ashkenazy Tradition of Biblical Chant Between
>1500-1900
>>(out of print)
>>Does anyone know of a copy of Off the Willows by Abraham Soltes?
>>
>>The Peter Gradenwitz, The Music of Israel is a revised and expanded
>version
>>of the previous book. It's good to have the newer edition even if you
>>already have the older version.
>>Judy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 11:02 AM 12/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Elliot,
>>>
>>>Thanks for the list of suggested books.
>>>
>>>According to amazon.com, the Werner is out of print, while the Fromm
>>>may be available.
>>>
>>>Is the Idelsohn, A.Z.: Jewish Music... an actual 3rd edition or only
>a
>>>3rd printing of the original additon?
>>>
>>>I ask because amazon.com lists it as a reprint edition (July 1992)
>of
>>>535 pages, and my Schocken copy (a Second Printing, 1972) is also
>535
>>>pages.
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU <elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
>>>To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>>Cc: elkahn <elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
>>>Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:19 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish
>music
>>>
>>>
>>>>May I suggest the following books for a solid grounding in the
>>>history,
>>>>aesthetics and musical language of Jewish music?
>>>>
>>>>Idelsohn, A.Z. Jewish music in its historical development, 3rd
>>>edition,
>>>>NY: Dover, 1992.
>>>>
>>>>Gradenwitz, Peter. The music of Israel, 2nd edition, Portland:
>>>Amadeus
>>>>Press, 1996. (Don't use the first edition)
>>>>
>>>>Werner, Eric. A voice still heard: the sacred songs of the
>Ashkenazic
>>>>Jews, University Park: Penn. State Press, 1976.
>>>>
>>>>Heskes, Irene. Passport to Jewish music, Westport, Conn.: Greenwood
>>>Press,
>>>>1994.
>>>>
>>>>Some excellent out of print sources which we have at the Library of
>>>the
>>>>Jewish Theological Seminary:
>>>>
>>>>Fromm, Herbert. On Jewish Music: a composer's view, NY: Bloch,
>1978.
>>>>
>>>>Rothmueller, Aaron-Marko. The music of the Jews: an historical
>>>>appreciation, South Brunswick: T. Tosseloff, 1967.
>>>>
>>>>Saminsky, Lazare. Music of the ghetto and the bible, NY: Bloch,
>1934.
>>>>
>>>>I can't recommend the Saminsky or the Fromm book highly enough for
>>>those
>>>>of you interested in what constitutes "Jewish Music." This is a
>very
>>>old
>>>>discussion that dates back -- in our time, anyway -- to the turn of
>>>the
>>>>century.
>>>>
>>>>I am not familiar with Mark Slobin's TENEMENT SONGS, but this also
>>>might
>>>>be a valuable resource for the study of American Yiddish Theatre
>>>music.
>>>>
>>>>The Nulman ENCYCLOPEDIA OF JEWISH MUSIC has its value as a general
>>>>reference but -- be forewarned -- it did not receive kind reviews
>>>from
>>>>Jewish musicologists when it first appeared.
>>>>
>>>>Hope this is helpful,
>>>>
>>>>Eliott Kahn
>>>>Music Archivist
>>>>Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary
>>>>3080 Broadway
>>>>New York, NY 10027
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, robert wiener wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been on the lookout for Jewish Music books over the years,
>so
>>>I
>>>>> have both Idelsohn books and Nulman's Concise Encyclopedia of
>>>Jewish
>>>>> Music.  What other books are considered good for a library on the
>>>>> topic above in particular (and Jewish music in general)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com <richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com>
>>>>> To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>>>> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 5:22 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re[2]: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish
>music
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >My understanding is that Idelsohn's 2 books, Jewish Music and
>>>Jewish
>>>>> Liturgy are
>>>>> >basic texts.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Cantor Macy Nulman, indirectly a mentor of mine, has several
>books
>>>on
>>>>> the
>>>>> >subject, too.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Regards,
>>>>> >Rich Wolpoe
>>>>> >
>>>>> >______________________________ Reply Separator
>>>>> _________________________________
>>>>> >Subject: Re: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>>>>> >Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> at Tcpgate
>>>>> >Date:    12/28/98 1:09 PM
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Richard,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Idelsohn has a chapter "Song of the Synagogue" in Jewish Music.
>>>I've
>>>>> >also heard that Eric Werner is good to read on the relationship
>>>>> >between Jewish and Christian music, but I don't have any of his
>>>books
>>>>> >yet.  Should I?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I believe that I've also heard the "Maoz Tsur" melody used in a
>>>>> record
>>>>> >of a seder from Northern Africa (perhaps Fez, Morrocco).  I wish
>I
>>>>> >knew how it got there.  It's fascinating how these tunes can
>>>travel.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Bob
>>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>>> >From: richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com <richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com>
>>>>> >To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>>>> >Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 11:52 AM
>>>>> >Subject: Re: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>I believe Idelson discusses the origins of Jewish liturgical
>>>music.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Just as a general rule, it is often the case that the jewish
>>>litrugy
>>>>> >aand the
>>>>> >>Xtian liturgy BOTH adapted from common folk melodies rather
>than
>>>>> >directly from
>>>>> >>each other.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>EG the traditional Maoz Tsur melody is also used as a Lutheran
>>>hymn.
>>>>> >The most
>>>>> >>likely explanation is that both Jews and Lutherans adapted
>their
>>>>> >respective
>>>>> >>meoldies from a popular German marching song, rahter than from
>>>one
>>>>> >another.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Regards,
>>>>> >>Rich Wolpoe
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>______________________________ Reply Separator
>>>>> >_________________________________
>>>>> >>Subject: Cross-fertilization of Jewish and non-Jewish music
>>>>> >>Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> at Tcpgate
>>>>> >>Date:    12/27/98 5:39 PM
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Is there any material (e.g., books, articles, dissertations,
>>>>> >>discographies) on Jewish musical themes in classical music,
>>>>> >especially
>>>>> >>the less obvious compositions?  I do think that I saw something
>>>in
>>>>> >the
>>>>> >>Jewish Theological Seminary collection of dissertations from
>the
>>>>> >>Cantorial School, but it was basically on the more obvious
>>>>> >>copositions, e.g., Bloch.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>I would also be especially interested in material on the use of
>>>>> >>non-Jewish themes, popular or classical, in Jewish liturgical
>>>music
>>>>> >>(besides the Aleinu tunes and Adon Olam settings to popular
>>>song).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Bob
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>