Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!

[trombaedu <trombaedu...>]

If Elliot had said, as I think he meant, that there is already a rich 
musical culture from which young blacks could pull, I think we wouild 
not be so uncomfortable about his comment.

Ron Caswell wrote:

> ...and the blacks dances reals goods too...  sheesh...  man, can't you 
> see that rap is part of their culture?  "black people are the most 
> musical on the planet?"  Where the hell did you get that quote from?  
> Al Jolson?  You pulled that stereotype out of your butt.  I know some 
> black folks that snap there fingers on 1 and 3.  Maybe Don Byron 
> should join up on this list and say that Klezmer is an awful 
> commentary on the state of Jewish ghetto culture.  Would you like that?
>
>
> Eliott Kahn <Elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU> wrote:
>
>     Beautifully said!
>
>     I'm afraid we've been living in times where--especially
>     Academe--has a relativistic conception of truth and beauty. If
>     it's true or beautiful to someone, somewhere, it must be truth or
>     beauty. Right?
>
>     Wrong. A "ready-made" bicycle wheel or toilet found by Marcel
>     Duchamp simply cannot be considered alongside great works of art,
>     such as Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel.
>
>     And rap music cannot even be compared in the same category as
>     Bach's St. Matthew Passion, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, Porgy and
>     Bess, or Charlie Parker's horn.
>
>     I've always believed that black people are the most musical on the
>     planet. That they come up with this trash is an awful commentary
>     on the state of ghetto culture--and the greedy corporations that
>     promote it.
>
>     Eliott Kahn
>
>
>     At 10:12 AM 3/22/2004 -0500, Shirona wrote:
>     > Some questions can never be answered..."Yes, but is it ART"?
>     >
>     > As a frustrated art student in the 70's, where it seemed like
>     all rules,
>     >standards of visual criteria or any sense of a movement were
>     >abandoned...where in the wake of that abandonment was the vacuum
>     into which
>     >all forms of BS were sucked in...unchallenged - I got tired of
>     asking that
>     >question. Art was reduced to "claim". If you put it in a museum and
>     >declared "this is ART" - then it was! (Of course you needed lots
>     of confused
>     >suckers to back your claim).
>     >
>     > Perhaps every art-form needs to go through a phase like
>     that...like a
>     >natural disaster that causes death... and re-birth (hopefully),
>     and only
>     >time will tell. If the so-called ART can survive successive
>     generations who
>     >will "buy into" whatever it is and find value in it - aesthetic,
>     musical,
>     >visual, intellectual...write books about it, lecture about it,
>     have shows
>     >and concerts (and people will come and love it) - then you
>     probably have
>     >ART.
>     >
>     > It's hard for me to imagine that rap would earn such status in the
>     >future...but then I still can't believe it got so big and popular
>     in the
>     >present, so what do I know? Are we plunging into a massive cultural
>     >dark-age period? Maybe. We know what composers accomplished 50,
>     100, 200,
>     >300 etc years ago...what do we have to show in the present? If rap
>     >generates more "business" than any other form of music ( revenue,
>     CD sales,
>     >concert attendance) - does this mean that "this is it" for our
>     generation,
>     >and this is how we will be judged in the future? (Imagine a
>     little bust
>     >portrait on a piano with Puff Daddy alongside Mozart and
>     Beethoven...or a
>     >gallery in a museum dedicated to the "style" of rap artists...their
>     >clothing, cultural milieu...their contribution to world culture and
>     >enlightenment... I dunno - it's too depressing to think about it. I'm
>     >going to listen to my classical music, or Klezmer or good old
>     fashioned Rock
>     >'n roll and make believe everything is cool...;-)
>     >
>     > Shirona
>     > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>     > Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
>     > www.shirona.com
>     > www.cdbaby.com/shirona
>     > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>     >
>     > ----- Original Message -----
>     > From: "Farfl's House"
>     > To: "World music from a Jewish slant"
>     > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:23 AM
>     > Subject: Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!
>     >
>     >
>     > > In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, "rap Artist" and "rap
>     Music" are
>     > > oxymorons. I prefer to side with the late bassist John
>     Entwhistle who
>     > > was of the opinion that rap was for those that couldn't sing.
>     I'm also
>     > > of the opinion
>     > > that drum machines are for demo tapes and should be used as a
>     practicing
>     > > tool only. They have no place in recorded music being released
>     to the
>     > > public.
>     > > Anyone can learn to program a drum machine and a sequencer with a
>     > > minimum of instruction. Anyone can buy Adidas gear and learn
>     all of the
>     > > correct and approved hand gestures from their local 24-hour video
>     > > channel. This stagnant cliche "form of expression" devolved
>     out of a
>     > > rather interesting past time that took place in basements in
>     > > economically-depressed areas. Kids were using turntables to
>     play short
>     > > *snippets* of records to form sound loops.
>     > > Malcolm MacLaren had a hand in exposing it to the public,
>     hoping to
>     > > make a profit from it. Unfortunately, he paved the way for
>     such things
>     > > as "Puffed Wheat Daddy" or whatever his name is speaking about
>     Godzilla
>     >
>
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>
>http://roncaswell.com <http://roncaswell.com/>
>
>ron (at) roncaswell(dot)com <mailto:ron (at) roncaswell(dot)com>
>          
>
>212.865.9622 (H)
>
>646.321.5888 (C)
>



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