Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!

[Lori M Simon <lorelecs...>]

For me, the main problems I have with rap is the inherent violence and
attitude disrespect for others, including the borrowing of music without
attribution or compensation.  I realize that this is not the case with
all of this genre, but enough so that it has come to represent it for
many listeners.  I have been trying to think of another type of music
that is so, and can not come up with one, well maybe with the exception
of some of the grunge rock whose lyrics I'm too much of an old fogey to
understand much of anyway.  ;-)

I admire the art of extemporaneous rhyming poetry, and I know it has been
around for a long time before rap, in the African-American culture as
well as others.  When I first heard "Rappers Delight" I thought it was
fun, but was annoyed that they used "Good Times" as the musical
background.  I remember talking to Alan White (drummer for Yes) about how
he wanted to sue because some rapper had sampled his track without
permission.  GrandMaster Flash's "White Lines" was astonishing.  Malcolm
McLaren took it to another level and dimension.  Then the negativity came
in and it wasn't fun anymore--for me.  I won't go into the details, but I
think it could be used better than it is.  Then again, I can't stand the
message being put across by popular figures such as Brittany or Paris,
either (people, not places)

Lorele

 On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:24:29 -0500 "Shirona" <shirona (at) 
bellatlantic(dot)net>
writes:
>   Eliott - may I return the compliment?  Perhaps the problem isn't so 
> much
> with "bad art" - but with the hijacking of true and sincere 
> judgment...
> People are made to feel "insecure" about their gut feelings 
> regarding art or
> music by those who profess to be "more enlightened than thou". I've 
> heard
> and regurgitated all those arguments..."don't criticize what you 
> can't
> understand".  It is precisely this fear (of being thought of as
> "unenlightened" or "unsophisticated" or just plain ignorant) that 
> caused
> people to shut up and say nothing...and to end up not even knowing 
> HOW they
> feel.  Cultural Entropy.
> 
>   Read articles about hip-hop or rap...?  What for?  To find out 
> what I'm
> somehow "not getting"?  If there was anything attractive about it 
> for me - I
> probably would, on my own, without having to be intimidated into 
> doing so.
> I'm sorry - not everything is relative.  For me there is an 
> "absolute"
> difference between lyrics that say "I want to hold your hand" (even 
> if that
> was really, really "radical" back then...;-) and those who say "I 
> want to
> f--- your little sister".  Female singers have morphed into 
> soft-porn
> "artists".  (Gee - am I missing the "above my comprehension 
> abilities"
> message in this "art-form"?
> 
>   Folks - please re-read this story by Hans Christian Andersen
> 
>   http://hca.gilead.org.il/emperor.html
> 
>   Maybe it's about us.
> 
>   Shirona
>   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>   Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
>      www.shirona.com
>      www.cdbaby.com/shirona
>   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Eliott Kahn" <Elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
>   To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>   Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:12 AM
>   Subject: Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!
> 
> 
>   > Beautifully said!
>   >
>   > I'm afraid we've been living in times where--especially 
> Academe--has a
> relativistic conception of truth and beauty. If it's true or 
> beautiful to so
> meone, somewhere, it must be truth or beauty. Right?
>   >
>   > Wrong. A "ready-made" bicycle wheel or toilet found by Marcel 
> Duchamp
> simply cannot be considered alongside great works of art, such as
> Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel.
>   >
>   > And rap music cannot even be compared in the same category as 
> Bach's St.
> Matthew Passion, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, Porgy and Bess, or 
> Charlie
> Parker's horn.
>   >
>   > I've always believed that black people are the most musical on 
> the
> planet.  That they come up with this trash is an awful commentary on 
> the
> state of ghetto culture--and the greedy corporations that promote 
> it.
>   >
>   > Eliott Kahn
>   >
>   >
>   > At 10:12 AM 3/22/2004 -0500, Shirona wrote:
>   > >  Some questions can never be answered..."Yes, but is it ART"?
>   > >
>   > >  As a frustrated art student in the 70's, where it seemed like 
> all
> rules,
>   > >standards of visual criteria or any sense of a movement were
>   > >abandoned...where in the wake of that abandonment was the 
> vacuum into
> which
>   > >all forms of BS were sucked in...unchallenged - I got tired of 
> asking
> that
>   > >question.  Art was reduced to "claim".  If you put it in a 
> museum and
>   > >declared "this is ART" - then it was! (Of course you needed 
> lots of
> confused
>   > >suckers to back your claim).
>   > >
>   > >  Perhaps every art-form needs to go through a phase like 
> that...like a
>   > >natural disaster that causes death... and re-birth (hopefully), 
>  and
> only
>   > >time will tell.  If the so-called ART can survive successive
> generations who
>   > >will "buy into" whatever it is and find value in it - 
> aesthetic,
> musical,
>   > >visual, intellectual...write books about it, lecture about it, 
> have
> shows
>   > >and concerts (and people will come and love it) - then you 
> probably
> have
>   > >ART.
>   > >
>   > >  It's hard for me to imagine that rap would earn such status 
> in the
>   > >future...but then I still can't believe it got so big and 
> popular in
> the
>   > >present, so what do I know?  Are we plunging into a massive 
> cultural
>   > >dark-age period?  Maybe.  We know what composers accomplished 
> 50, 100,
> 200,
>   > >300 etc years ago...what do we have to show in the present?  If 
> rap
>   > >generates more "business" than any other form of music ( 
> revenue, CD
> sales,
>   > >concert attendance) - does this mean that "this is it" for our
> generation,
>   > >and this is how we will be judged in the future? (Imagine a 
> little bust
>   > >portrait on a piano with Puff Daddy alongside Mozart and 
> Beethoven...or
> a
>   > >gallery in a museum dedicated to the "style" of rap 
> artists...their
>   > >clothing, cultural milieu...their contribution to world culture 
> and
>   > >enlightenment...  I dunno - it's too depressing to think about 
> it.  I'm
>   > >going to listen to my classical music, or Klezmer or good old 
> fashioned
> Rock
>   > >'n roll and make believe everything is cool...;-)
>   > >
>   > >  Shirona
>   > >  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
> * *
>   > >  Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
>   > >     www.shirona.com
>   > >     www.cdbaby.com/shirona
>   > >  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
> * *
>   > >
>   > >  ----- Original Message -----
>   > >  From: "Farfl's House" <farfl (at) idirect(dot)ca>
>   > >  To: "World music from a Jewish slant" 
> <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>   > >  Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:23 AM
>   > >  Subject: Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >  > In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, "rap Artist" and 
> "rap Music"
> are
>   > >  > oxymorons.  I prefer to side with the late bassist John 
> Entwhistle
> who
>   > >  > was of the opinion that rap was for those that couldn't 
> sing.  I'm
> also
>   > >  > of the opinion
>   > >  > that drum machines are for demo tapes and should be used as 
> a
> practicing
>   > >  > tool only.  They have no place in recorded music being 
> released to
> the
>   > >  > public.
>   > >  > Anyone can learn to program a drum machine and a sequencer 
> with a
>   > >  > minimum of instruction.  Anyone can buy Adidas gear and 
> learn all
> of the
>   > >  > correct and approved  hand gestures from  their local 
> 24-hour video
>   > >  > channel.   This stagnant cliche "form of expression" 
> devolved out
> of a
>   > >  > rather interesting past time that took place in basements 
> in
>   > >  > economically-depressed areas.  Kids were using turntables 
> to play
> short
>   > >  > *snippets* of records to form sound loops.
>   > >  > Malcolm MacLaren had a hand in exposing it to the public,  
> hoping
> to
>   > >  > make a profit from it.  Unfortunately, he paved the way for 
> such
> things
>   > >  > as "Puffed Wheat Daddy" or whatever his name is speaking 
> about
> Godzilla
>   > >  > over Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir".
>   > >  > -Steven
>   > >  >
>   > >  >
>   > >  >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>   >
> 
> 
> 
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> ---------------------+
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