Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!

[Eliott Kahn <Elkahn...>]

At 11:51 AM 3/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>...and the blacks dances reals goods too...  sheesh...  man, can't you see 
>that rap is part of their culture?  

When you say "their culture," are you referring to the black, church-going 
people who are trying to decently raise their children in inner-city 
neighborhoods with crime and inferior schools. Perhaps you are referring to the 
burgeoning black middle-class, who, after desegregation, left the ghetto and 
not longer want any part of it? Is it "their culture" as well?  Would these 
people rather have their children use drugs and firearms--a "gangsta" 
imperative--or go to college? So, I guess it's not part of "their culture."

To the best of my knowledge, earlier African cultures were non-literate. 
CULTURALLY, the people from the African continent seem to have very high 
musical aptitude. I do not know why, but I meant it as a great compliment. I 
learned it the fun way, by trying to sing in a black gospel choir.

>"black people are the most musical on the planet?"  Where the hell did you get 
>that quote from?  Al Jolson?  You pulled that stereotype out of your butt.  I 
>know some black folks that snap there fingers on 1 and 3.  Maybe Don Byron 
>should join up on this list and say that Klezmer is an awful commentary on the 
>state of Jewish ghetto culture.  Would you like that?

This would be inaccurate because--again, to the best of my knowledge--most of 
the klezmer musicians on this list strike me as coming from middle class 
backgrounds and not the ghetto. 

To me, coming from a Jewish middle class background and NOT being a 
"professional" is indeed a healthy development!

Eliott Kahn


>Eliott Kahn <Elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU> wrote: 
>Beautifully said! 
>
>I'm afraid we've been living in times where--especially Academe--has a 
>relativistic conception of truth and beauty. If it's true or beautiful to 
>someone, somewhere, it must be truth or beauty. Right?
>
>Wrong. A "ready-made" bicycle wheel or toilet found by Marcel Duchamp simply 
>cannot be considered alongside great works of art, such as Michaelangelo's 
>Sistine Chapel. 
>
>And rap music cannot even be compared in the same category as Bach's St. 
>Matthew Passion, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, Porgy and Bess, or Charlie 
>Parker's horn.
>
>I've always believed that black people are the most musical on the planet. 
>That they come up with this trash is an awful commentary on the state of 
>ghetto culture--and the greedy corporations that promote it.
>
>Eliott Kahn
>
>
>At 10:12 AM 3/22/2004 -0500, Shirona wrote:
>> Some questions can never be answered..."Yes, but is it ART"?
>>
>> As a frustrated art student in the 70's, where it seemed like all rules,
>>standards of visual criteria or any sense of a movement were
>>abandoned...where in the wake of that abandonment was the vacuum into which
>>all forms of BS were sucked in...unchallenged - I got tired of asking that
>>question. Art was reduced to "claim". If you put it in a museum and
>>declared "this is ART" - then it was! (Of course you needed lots of confused
>>suckers to back your claim).
>>
>> Perhaps every art-form needs to go through a phase like that...like a
>>natural disaster that causes death... and re-birth (hopefully), and only
>>time will tell. If the so-called ART can survive successive generations who
>>will "buy into" whatever it is and find value in it - aesthetic, musical,
>>visual, intellectual...write books about it, lecture about it, have shows
>>and concerts (and people will come and love it) - then you probably have
>>ART.
>>
>> It's hard for me to imagine that rap would earn such status in the
>>future...but then I still can't believe it got so big and popular in the
>>present, so what do I know? Are we plunging into a massive cultural
>>dark-age period? Maybe. We know what composers accomplished 50, 100, 200,
>>300 etc years ago...what do we have to show in the present? If rap
>>generates more "business" than any other form of music ( revenue, CD sales,
>>concert attendance) - does this mean that "this is it" for our generation,
>>and this is how we will be judged in the future? (Imagine a little bust
>>portrait on a piano with Puff Daddy alongside Mozart and Beethoven...or a
>>gallery in a museum dedicated to the "style" of rap artists...their
>>clothing, cultural milieu...their contribution to world culture and
>>enlightenment... I dunno - it's too depressing to think about it. I'm
>>going to listen to my classical music, or Klezmer or good old fashioned Rock
>>'n roll and make believe everything is cool...;-)
>>
>> Shirona
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>> Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
>> www.shirona.com
>> www.cdbaby.com/shirona
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Farfl's House" 
>> To: "World music from a Jewish slant" 
>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!
>>
>>
>> > In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, "rap Artist" and "rap Music" are
>> > oxymorons. I prefer to side with the late bassist John Entwhistle who
>> > was of the opinion that rap was for those that couldn't sing. I'm also
>> > of the opinion
>> > that drum machines are for demo tapes and should be used as a practicing
>> > tool only. They have no place in recorded music being released to the
>> > public.
>> > Anyone can learn to program a drum machine and a sequencer with a
>> > minimum of instruction. Anyone can buy Adidas gear and learn all of the
>> > correct and approved hand gestures from their local 24-hour video
>> > channel. This stagnant cliche "form of expression" devolved out of a
>> > rather interesting past time that took place in basements in
>> > economically-depressed areas. Kids were using turntables to play short
>> > *snippets* of records to form sound loops.
>> > Malcolm MacLaren had a hand in exposing it to the public, hoping to
>> > make a profit from it. Unfortunately, he paved the way for such things
>> > as "Puffed Wheat Daddy" or whatever his name is speaking about Godzilla
>> 
>
>
> ___             ___                    _ _ 
>
>| _ \___ _ _    / __|__ _ ____ __ _____| | |
>
>|   / _ \ ' \  | (__/ _` (_-< V  V / -_) | |
>
>|_|_\___/_||_|  \___\__,_/__/\_/\_/\___|_|_|
><http://roncaswell.com/>http://roncaswell.com
><mailto:ron (at) roncaswell(dot)com>ron (at) roncaswell(dot)com<mailto:ron 
>(at) roncaswell(dot)com>
>
>212.865.9622 (H)
>646.321.5888 (C)

---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+