Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!

[Ron Caswell <ron...>]

Actually, rap is part of my culture.  Last time I checked I'm not black.  There 
are lot's white kids buying rap in Ohio.  It's not just an urban thing anymore. 
 The rock guys have also incorporated it into the rock world. One good example 
was Rage Against the Machine.  You see, it is becoming more a part of our 
culture.  It ain't just a black thing no more.  

trombaedu <trombaedu (at) optonline(dot)net> wrote:If Elliot had said, as I 
think he meant, that there is already a rich 
musical culture from which young blacks could pull, I think we wouild 
not be so uncomfortable about his comment.

Ron Caswell wrote:

> ...and the blacks dances reals goods too... sheesh... man, can't you 
> see that rap is part of their culture? "black people are the most 
> musical on the planet?" Where the hell did you get that quote from? 
> Al Jolson? You pulled that stereotype out of your butt. I know some 
> black folks that snap there fingers on 1 and 3. Maybe Don Byron 
> should join up on this list and say that Klezmer is an awful 
> commentary on the state of Jewish ghetto culture. Would you like that?
>
>
> Eliott Kahn wrote:
>
> Beautifully said!
>
> I'm afraid we've been living in times where--especially
> Academe--has a relativistic conception of truth and beauty. If
> it's true or beautiful to someone, somewhere, it must be truth or
> beauty. Right?
>
> Wrong. A "ready-made" bicycle wheel or toilet found by Marcel
> Duchamp simply cannot be considered alongside great works of art,
> such as Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel.
>
> And rap music cannot even be compared in the same category as
> Bach's St. Matthew Passion, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro, Porgy and
> Bess, or Charlie Parker's horn.
>
> I've always believed that black people are the most musical on the
> planet. That they come up with this trash is an awful commentary
> on the state of ghetto culture--and the greedy corporations that
> promote it.
>
> Eliott Kahn
>
>
> At 10:12 AM 3/22/2004 -0500, Shirona wrote:
> > Some questions can never be answered..."Yes, but is it ART"?
> >
> > As a frustrated art student in the 70's, where it seemed like
> all rules,
> >standards of visual criteria or any sense of a movement were
> >abandoned...where in the wake of that abandonment was the vacuum
> into which
> >all forms of BS were sucked in...unchallenged - I got tired of
> asking that
> >question. Art was reduced to "claim". If you put it in a museum and
> >declared "this is ART" - then it was! (Of course you needed lots
> of confused
> >suckers to back your claim).
> >
> > Perhaps every art-form needs to go through a phase like
> that...like a
> >natural disaster that causes death... and re-birth (hopefully),
> and only
> >time will tell. If the so-called ART can survive successive
> generations who
> >will "buy into" whatever it is and find value in it - aesthetic,
> musical,
> >visual, intellectual...write books about it, lecture about it,
> have shows
> >and concerts (and people will come and love it) - then you
> probably have
> >ART.
> >
> > It's hard for me to imagine that rap would earn such status in the
> >future...but then I still can't believe it got so big and popular
> in the
> >present, so what do I know? Are we plunging into a massive cultural
> >dark-age period? Maybe. We know what composers accomplished 50,
> 100, 200,
> >300 etc years ago...what do we have to show in the present? If rap
> >generates more "business" than any other form of music ( revenue,
> CD sales,
> >concert attendance) - does this mean that "this is it" for our
> generation,
> >and this is how we will be judged in the future? (Imagine a
> little bust
> >portrait on a piano with Puff Daddy alongside Mozart and
> Beethoven...or a
> >gallery in a museum dedicated to the "style" of rap artists...their
> >clothing, cultural milieu...their contribution to world culture and
> >enlightenment... I dunno - it's too depressing to think about it. I'm
> >going to listen to my classical music, or Klezmer or good old
> fashioned Rock
> >'n roll and make believe everything is cool...;-)
> >
> > Shirona
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> > www.shirona.com
> > www.cdbaby.com/shirona
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Farfl's House"
> > To: "World music from a Jewish slant"
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: cRAP, Jewish or Otherwise - My Many Opinions!
> >
> >
> > > In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, "rap Artist" and "rap
> Music" are
> > > oxymorons. I prefer to side with the late bassist John
> Entwhistle who
> > > was of the opinion that rap was for those that couldn't sing.
> I'm also
> > > of the opinion
> > > that drum machines are for demo tapes and should be used as a
> practicing
> > > tool only. They have no place in recorded music being released
> to the
> > > public.
> > > Anyone can learn to program a drum machine and a sequencer with a
> > > minimum of instruction. Anyone can buy Adidas gear and learn
> all of the
> > > correct and approved hand gestures from their local 24-hour video
> > > channel. This stagnant cliche "form of expression" devolved
> out of a
> > > rather interesting past time that took place in basements in
> > > economically-depressed areas. Kids were using turntables to
> play short
> > > *snippets* of records to form sound loops.
> > > Malcolm MacLaren had a hand in exposing it to the public,
> hoping to
> > > make a profit from it. Unfortunately, he paved the way for
> such things
> > > as "Puffed Wheat Daddy" or whatever his name is speaking about
> Godzilla
> >
>
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>http://roncaswell.com 
>
>ron (at) roncaswell(dot)com 
> 
>
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>
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