Chassidim and Misnagdim (was Re: Kol Isha - Just the Facts, please!)

[Michael Davis <michaelinchicago...>]

Here is my anecdotal report:
 
In my experience, in general, Chassidim are stricter about the separation fo 
the sexes. At a sheva brochos I went to which was run along chassidic lines, 
there was a mechitza and separate entrances for men and women (even though the 
guests were mostly family), Even the bride and groom sat at separate tables. 
The only concession by the men to the presence of women was when the rebbe 
spoke (with his back to the mechitza and in Yiddish, which most of the women 
couldn't understand), a narrow opening was made in the mechitza and the kalleh 
sat there in full view of the men, listening. This was not the case at another 
sheva brochos given by the misnagdishe mechutonim. There, although there was 
separate seating at the tables, there was no mechitza and the bride and groom 
sat side by side at the top table.
 
OTOH, My misnaged niece who married a fellow misnaged last year had a chassidic 
inspired "mitzvah tantz" with various male relatives. At 1 a.m., at the end of 
the wedding meal, all the single men and women who weren't family were asked to 
leave. The "mitzvah tantz", which lasted about an hour was a most moving 
experienve. It started with the kalleh standing with downcast eyes holding one 
end of a gartel (chassidic belt), while various male relatives were called up 
to dance, while holding the other end. The "mitzvah tantz" culminated with the 
kalleh actually dancing hand in hand with her father and then dancing embraced 
with her husband. It was the first time I had ever seen such a public display 
of affection in the Charedi world. 
 
Her father wears a bekishe (a black, silk coat worn by Chassidim) at the 
Shabbos table (but not in shule). My limited exposure to that world indicates 
to me that today, Chassidishe customs are more socially acceptable in 
misnagdishe circles than they were say 20-30 years ago. 

Michael Davis
'Formerly a Misnaged - Now a Liberal Jew'
 

"Ms. Cat" <alanamscat (at) yahoo(dot)com> wrote:


--- Jordan Hirsch wrote:
> It is my opinion that as Chasidim have started 
> learning in more Lithuanian style Yeshivos in the 
> last twenty years, their customs have also 
> infiltrated the thinking in those "litvishe" 
> Yeshivos.
> Chasidic thinking was always based on a mystical
> approach to Gender relations, which mandated many 
> more distinctions in behavior and mixing.
> ... But what is important is the way in which
> those ideas have become more mainstream than they
> ever were.

Actually, historically speaking, this is almost
exactly backwards (perhaps historically is different
than practically though), in that it's actually the
case that when Chasidism began, one of the reasons
that the mitnagdim hated them so much was because they
thought that their (in mitnagdish eyes. I am not here
expressing an opinion) utter disregard of halacha was
apikorsis - especially in their notions of
transmigration of souls -- and in the fact that women
in chasidism often had a much wider variety of
opportunities for public leadership, beginning with
the daughter of the Baal Shem Tov, Edel, who
accompanied him everywhere, and whom he claimed had "a
man's soul."
Other chasidic women were heads of "courts" sometimes
jointly with their husbands, sometimes *on their own.*
Some became ascetic and hermit "holy women," to whom
people went for blessings and prayers on their behalf,
just as they would to a man. Many women wrote
manuscripts of various sorts, some gave piskei
halachah (halachic legal decisions), taught (often
from behind a screen or some such thing), gave divrei
torah publicly, wore tzitzit and tefilin, received
petitions from their chasidim, or had mystical
experiences that they spoke about publically, and so
on. We know for certain of a few dozen - there were
almost certainly hundreds more whom we don't know
about by name or title, because as chasidism became
more mainstream, it has attempted to bury its rather
more radical past.