Re: Kol Isha - Just the Facts, please!

[Ms. Cat <alanamscat...>]

--- Jordan Hirsch <trombaedu (at) earthlink(dot)net> wrote:
> It is my opinion that as Chasidim have started 
> learning in more Lithuanian style Yeshivos in the 
> last twenty years, their customs have also 
> infiltrated the thinking in those "litvishe" 
> Yeshivos.
> Chasidic thinking was always based on a mystical
> approach to Gender relations, which mandated many 
> more distinctions in behavior and mixing.
> ... But what is important is the way in which
> those ideas have become more mainstream than they
> ever were.

Actually, historically speaking, this is almost
exactly backwards (perhaps historically is different
than practically though), in that it's actually the
case that when Chasidism began, one of the reasons
that the mitnagdim hated them so much was because they
thought that their (in mitnagdish eyes. I am not here
expressing an opinion) utter disregard of halacha was
apikorsis - especially in their notions of
transmigration of souls -- and in the fact that women
in chasidism often had a much wider variety of
opportunities for public leadership, beginning with
the daughter of the Baal Shem Tov, Edel, who
accompanied him everywhere, and whom he claimed had "a
man's soul."
Other chasidic women were heads of "courts" sometimes
jointly with their husbands, sometimes *on their own.*
Some became ascetic and hermit "holy women," to whom
people went for blessings and prayers on their behalf,
just as they would to a man. Many women wrote
manuscripts of various sorts, some gave piskei
halachah (halachic legal decisions), taught (often
from behind a screen or some such thing), gave divrei
torah publicly, wore tzitzit and tefilin, received
petitions from their chasidim, or had mystical
experiences that they spoke about publically, and so
on. We know for certain of a few dozen - there were
almost certainly hundreds more whom we don't know
about by name or title, because as chasidism became
more mainstream, it has attempted to bury its rather
more radical past.
A short and reasonably coherent account of some of the
women whom we know of for certain can be found in a
book called _Written Out of History_ by Henry and
Taitz, although with some little research, one can
find writings on some of these women on one's own.

OTOH, Judith writes:
"At one synagogue where the rabbi cancelled a concert
of mine which the sisterhood had already set up and 
advertised on "kol isha " grounds, he then said it
would be ok if even one other woman sang with me . I
said the only other woman I knew at the time (my
daughter was small and not singing much yet) who
really knew the style well (a former member of
Gerineldo) was much more gorgeous and sexy and
potentially lust-inspiring than I, and I couldn't see
why that would be a mitigating factor. He said, that
was ok.

This exchange did nothing to convince me of the
"right" of rabbis to make these decisions."

Whether one agrees with the decision or not (I've made
what I think is the correct halachah on KI clear), it
is certainly the case that rabbi have the "right" as
well as the obligation to make such decisions. That
is, simply as a matter of fact, what rabbis do. They
study and learn the sources -Torah (including talmud)
and other commentators, and make legal decisions.
Indeed, it is precisely what a rabbi is. 
Anyone can become a rav if you're willing to give up a
number of years of your life, study Jewish law
intensively, understand that you're obligated to obey
the law (as any Jew is, of course), learn the
hermaneutics of interpretation, and study how others
have applied them. That's what gives rabbis the
"right," together with the Torah, which tells us that
one must obey the decisions of the judges of our day -
which is what rabbis are. 
As for the case given, if, in fact, one does hold by
KI that it isn't just about someone trying to recite
the shma, the rabbi is correct in that it isn't the
woman's physical appearance which causes KI (otherwise
it wouldn't be *kol*), it's the voice. 
There are, of course, other problems with physical
appearance and dress, but they aren't kol isha, and
one doesn't (necessarily) need to deal with them
simultaneously.

Alana Suskin


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