RE: Fw: Kol Isha

[Katie Marcus <kmarcus...>]

-Just one thing I wanted to mention- or clarify- not ALL of Orthodox 
Judaism agrees with the Kol Ishah rule.  I was at a feminist orthodox 
conference a few years ago and one of the conference topics was on the 
subject of Kol Ishah.

        Really interesting exchange between Rabbi Saul Berman and a female 
professor from Brandeis (forgive me, I forgot her name.)  Rabbi Berman got 
up and basically said that this saying developed out of an extremist 
viewpoint, and really should not have any standing in the community 
(paraphrase.)  The audience applauded him.
        When the female professor (who unfortunately failed to identify herself 
as 
Orthodox before she began) basically got up to say the same thing, the 
audience was outraged, saying she was criticizing Orthodox Judaism.  All of 
the sudden, because a woman was criticizing the Kol Ishah tradition, the 
audience got defensive.

Personally, I really have no problem with the Kol Ishah tradition- either 
it is part of us or not.  My concern is how inconsistently it's enforced. 
 If it's halacha, then it should be halacha, not left to the whim of some 
bored person who wants to feel power over others.

-Katie


-----Original Message-----
From:   Alex Lubet [SMTP:lubet001 (at) umn(dot)edu]
Sent:   Monday, February 19, 2001 5:52 PM
To:     World music from a Jewish slant
Subject:        Re: Fw: Kol Isha

>In a message dated 2/19/01 12:28:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>lubet001 (at) umn(dot)edu writes:
>
>>.  Being fiercely critical of a code which one regards as demeaning is
>>hardly disrespect.
>>
>>
>>One often hears the complaint of having one's remarks taken out of 
context.
>>  However, there are many positions that cannot possibly be improved
>>regardless of context.  Obvious, for many on this list, Kol Isha is one,
>>and not a trifling matter.  When a position is taken that is so obviously
>>going to offend, one should anticipate a strong response and not infer 
from
>>that response that disagreement equals disrespect.
>>
>
>
>You are right in principle. But I will say, (again), when it comes to 
tenet's
>of Jewish belief, such as that Halacha is part of a tradition developed 
over
>thousands of years, those who adhere to it are entitled to the benefit of 
the
>doubt that it should not be condemned before being investigated. That is 
why
>I support Shirona's questions, but not her a priori rejection. And the 
same
>goes for you. "Being fiercely critical of a code one regards as demeaning 
is
>hardly disrespect" is only true insofar as one knows what is in that code.
>If a person reacts in a precipitate manner, insulting in the process those
>who think that the code has great validity, in part because we have taken 
the
>time to find out what's in it, that cannot be considered fierce criticism 
of
>a known evil, but blind condemnation of an unknown quantity. I will not 
use
>the cheap rhetorical trick of calling that bigotry, but I could.
>The fact that I have invited any and all to contact me about this means  
 that
>I obviously consider these questions, and objections, important.
>
Please!  If you want to let us in on your position, you can do it
on-list.  You've extended this invitation to enough of us to go
public.  I would submit that you don't know how much anyone who
disagrees with you does or doesn't know about Halacha, and that you
assume that a disagreement with your position could only stem from
ignorance.
or, as you say, give it the benefit of the doubt because of its
endurance, I respectfully disagree.  That is not to say that I don't
respect Halacha or you personally.  As for cheap rhetorical tricks,
saying you have every right to call me a bigot but won't is a
rhetorical trick in the same price range as calling me a bigot.
Please note that I haven't called you or anyone on this list a bigot,
a misogynist, or anything else.  And I couldn't, because I don't
resort even to very expensive rhetorical tricks.

I had an exchange with Ari that we decided should remain off-list,
although it was entirely civil and please, but I hope he'll permit my
synopsis of it here.  No one is going to change anyone's mind here.
Unless someone wants to inform us of the full Halachic take as they
see it, which would be new information that I'd love to learn,
disagree or not, then maybe it's time to close up shop on this
thread.  Sprited debate is definitely Jewish and in-your-face
feminism, many of whose greatest sheroes were/are wonderful Jewish
women who learned their rhetorical skills in Jewish familial and
communal contexts, has accomplished much for which we should all be
grateful and of which we can be justly proud.  Of course, one could
say much the same for Orthodoxy.

Look for my review of Mark Slobin's Fiddler on the Move in the
December 2001 issue of MLA (Music Library Association) Notes and my
article on Wolf Krakowski's Transmigrations in the 2003 Polin.  In
the latter, I discuss the role of the female chorus that has kept
(much of) this priceless cultural treasure off certain playlists.
Wolf likes the article a lot, so it must be definitive.


--
Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
Adjunct Professor of American Studies
University of Minnesota
100 Ferguson Hall
Minneapolis, MN 55455
612 624-7840 (o)
612 699-1097 (h)
612 624-8001  ATTN:  Alex Lubet (FAX) << File: ATT00002.html >> 

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