Re:KI - Bingo Rabbi Weilheimer

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

Dear Listers:

Whatever we think of the halikhic validity of K.I., the real villains in
Lorele's scenario were not the putative Orthodox men who might have been
offended (sexually aroused)., but the powers that be who booked the group
and accommodated their ultra-minority viewpoint without consideration not
only for the rights of the performer, but of the audience to hear the full
program it might otherwise have heard. As I understand it, Lorele's
exclusion was not in response to their request, but was done in
accommodation to their viewpoint out of hand.

What makes this even more upsetting is that this orchestra flies under the
banner of the WORKMEN'S CIRCLE - an organization born out of Revolution and
Progress and Social Justice. They should never have "caved" but instead made
a stand.
Lorele or we walk.

Sylvia Schildt



on 2/23/03 1:33 PM, WINSTON WEILHEIMER at nusach (at) hotmail(dot)com wrote:

i have kept quiet on this issue this round, because last time this topic
came up, I expressed how I felt about the topic fully.  Suffice it to say, I
completely disagree with those who wish to impose Kol Issah on groups.  I
completely and totally agree that this is an issue that is at the very least
archaic and inappropriate in our world today.  I very much enjoy listening
to female artists (without being sexually aroused).  I must say that the
first few times I heard a female cantor, it was a bit uncomfortable for me,
but now I enjoy listening to them as well as male cantors.  For those who
listen to my shows on the net, you will know that I feature many female
artists....(a word on the shows, I plan to return to the air live this
thursday night ...with help from Hashem).

Having said all of this, those who hold these ideas have every right to hold
them FOR THEMSELVES.  They have NO RIGHT to impose them on others.  As has
been said many times in this thread they can just stay away.  BUT  they are
not the problem with Kol Isha.

The problem is promoters who would book a group into a general forum who
would not when there MIGHT be some orthodox people who would object and then
say Kol Isha is a problem. In such a venue, it is unfair to a group to say,
you have to either get rid of the females for the night or not play at all.
Those who are orthodox should be put on notice that there are women in the
group, and then they can decide whether or not to show up!

I have no problem with them refusing to book a mixed (men and women) group
into a concert that is in an orthodox venue (such as a wedding) that they
knew before hand that kol issah is a problem.  That really only makes common
sense.  HERE the problem then is with the group.  The group should then NOT
take the gig rather than play with out female memebers.  Groups with Females
and sypathetic all male groups, should boycott all work from promoters who
do this.

The way to send the message, is TO SEND THE MESSAGE, not just complain about
it.  If promoters who want to book groups with Females in other venues,
can't do it because of their Kol Isha policies, perhaps they will get the
message.

Rabbi Winston Weilheimer
Host/OWNER
NUSACH INTERNET RADIO NETWORK
Nusach, THE ORIGINAL SOUL MUSIC!
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/nusach/




>From: "Trudi Goodman" <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: kol isha in action/re-action
>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:29:57 +0000
>


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From: "Trudi Goodman" <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:29:57 +0000
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Subject: Re: kol isha in action/re-action

Dear Lorele: 

It's my feeling that this issue of Kol Isha will continue to be raised until
it is resolved. 

It reminds me of when Women first started being ordained as Rabbis and
Cantors and there was this huge tumult from certain sections of the Jewish
Community. Well, the women(and people who love and respect women)kept
pushing for women in the Rabbinate and it happened.  Of course, I know
Ultra-Orthodox men who will never accept that women are religious leaders.
It's truly their loss. I know about all of the arguements in favor of Kol
Isha...and they are just nonsense!

Truly,  G-d does not discriminate!  It's too bad that some people try to put
HaShem in that position in order to justify their small-mindedness. I grew
up around Chassidim. I love and respect them and other Orthodox Jews...but
how as a woman could I ever respect women being thought of this way?
Gornichts! 

What can you do???  Keep making noise! Especially wonderful "noise" like
singing!!! 

I think they did this dirty deed when you weren't around, because they knew
what a fiesty and intelligent(not to mention talented)Jewish Woman you
are...and they didn't want your opposition!

Hey, maybe these Rabbis' wives would like to come in their place? It's seems
terrible to waste tickets for a good cause??? (Please note my irony)...and
that way you could sing(Please note my total sarcasm and disgust, here).

P.S. Lorele: NEVER apologize for "venting". It is only through noise and
activity that the World changes!!! -So keep making lots and lots of noise!!!



Love, 

Trudi








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