Re: (OT?)'G*d does not discriminate'? (Was: KI)

[music <music...>]

I'm not sure what to make of, or how to respond to--esp. on this list,
where an extended thread on these questions is really not appropriate--to
so arrogant a post, esp. one which accuses _me_ of arrogance.

I *never* describe myself as "frummer than Thou"--and, indeed,
linguistically it would be inappropriate to do so.

The post I was responding to, otoh, purported to know what G*d had in mind,
and to know G*d's ways.  *That's* (spiritually) arrogant.  I, otoh, do
*not* know what G*d had in mind, and don't know, and don't purport to know,
G*d's ways.  I don't know if G*d's agenda = your standard liberal/Left
values agenda (it might), or differs from it in some respects (it might) or
in many respects (ditto)--or transcends it entirely and ought to be defined
in entirely different ways.

"He [meaning me/I] will never realize"--this is the language of arrogance,
Sylvia.  As is purporting to know--just like the original poster--"what God
had in mind."  I don't know what God had in mind--and neither do you.  To
imply, or suggest, or state that you do--that's ultimate arrogance.  (It's
also false; you don't.)  That's being *less* humble with respect to being
on "the inside track to ultimate truth".  I don't suggest that I'm on that
inside track, and I know I'm not; you seem to think that you are.

So far as your last paragraph is concerned, I think it's well put (as
opposed to the preceding paragraphs, which are insulting and entirely
inappropriate).  Presenting "the beauty of our (musical--and, for that
matter, broader spiritual) contribution to the world at large" has been a
significant part of my creative, media, educational, and professional work
for (I'm sorry to say!) almost the last 30 years.

--Robert Cohen

P.S.  As a lifelong editor and sometime writer, I do indeed, otoh, realize
the distinction between words, and insinuated such in my posting.  Jewish
law and traditions would, I think, more plausibly support than not that the
distinction (which is indisputable) that Jewish law and tradition makes
between Jews and non-Jews extends to "discriminating" in various contexts
and spheres (consider, among probably many examples, laws regarding
charging interest)--but this is surely for a different discussion on a
different list.

The deeper point, again, is that G*d makes distinctions or not, and
discriminates or not, as G*d chooses--that's what it means to "be" G*d.  It
is for us--or, anyway, those of us who consider this a proper Jewish or
personal vocation, and especially those of us who *don't* aver having any
sort of inside track w/ respect to ultimate truth--to humbly seek to
discern and, to the extent we can, understand G*d's will.  (Which may or
may not, in the present case imo, coincide with a stringent view of kol
isha, a liberal view of kol isha, or no present relevance or place for kol
isha at all.)  It is *not* for us to profess to know G*d's ways, or will.

(That applies equally, btw, to, um, "frummer than thou" rabbis in Israel or
here who knowingly advise that such-and-such catastrophe came out because
there was mixed dancing, or no mezuzahs on the doors, or whatever.  I've
written on that before, but can't remember whether it was on this or
another list.)


 -------- Original Message --------
   Subject: Re: (OT?)"G*d does not discriminate"? (Was: KI)
   From: Sylvia Schildt <creativa (at) charm(dot)net>
   Date: Sat, March 8, 2003 8:08 pm
   To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>

   Gotenyu !

   If  I weren't already so exhausted by the KI debate, I could pen a
   volume of counter-argument to friend Robert Cohen's arrogant,
   frummer-than-Thou end of shabes diatribe.

   But I also know better now that those who follow this line of thinking
   will think it sage and reasonable, while the rest of us, a little
   humbler in our belief that we have the inside track to ultimate truth,
   will heartily disagree. And never the twain shall meet.

   He will never realize the huge gulf in meaning between "discrminate",
   as used in this discussion and the broader "make a distinction." He
   will never realize how painful and insulting it is to be
   "discriminated against." He will never realize that this may not be
   what God had in Mind.

   And re: the special existence of Jewish music, and derivatively, the
   list, there is another way to look at it -- a broader world view.
   Since your God and mine, Reb Robert, created all the peoples, not just
   us Jews, not just males, but women as well, he gave us all different
   songs to sing, different notes and rhythms in the larger symphony of
   humanity. It is for us to discover and refine these distinctions and
   present the beauty of our contribution to the world at large.

   A gut vokh,


   Sylvia Schildt
   Baltimore, Maryland




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