Re: Kol Isha/Miriam's Song/Wagner

[Alex J. Lubet <lubet001...>]

You and Ari are both right.  It occurs to me that any man who's aroused by a 
woman's singing voice ought to stop reading these posts, lest he fantasize how 
they might sound in song.  That would put an end to this thread pretty quickly.

BTW, our conference on Wagner's anti-Semitism was very successful, with the 
best part the distinguished cast of Jewish studies scholars.  Anyone deeply 
interested in this subject should read Richard Wagner and the Anti-Semitic 
Imagination, by Marc Weiner.  His great-grandson, Gottfried Wagner, our 
featured guest, wrote his dissertation on Kurt Weill and was at one time the 
head of
the Kurt Weill Foundation, which would seem to indicate that not all the 
Wagners were/are anti-Semites.

On this subject, one of the two themes of next year's Saint Paul Chamber 
Orchestra season will be 'degenerate' music, that is, music banned by the 
Nazi's, mostly, of course, by Jewish composers.  I'm part of the planning and 
may also be speaking.  If you can't make it to St. Paul, I think these are 
widely broadcast.



Lori Cahan-Simon wrote:

> Thank you, once again, Ari, for your good sense and good advice.  As the
> instigator of this year's KI debate, I'd like to say that I find it
> fascinating that this subject gets more responses per day than any other
> that is ever posted about.  It has also not changed a single
> participant's view on the subject, as far as I can tell, but what it
> does is raise consciousness about it, provide support and sometimes some
> very good advice on how to deal with it in the future, and to prepare
> onesself for the inevitability of its happening yet again.
>
> I have spoken with my rabbi about this issue and he and I are going to
> sit down and have a talk about what I can do about it.
>
> The offending gig was last night, and I have yet to hear any reports
> about it, but will let you know if there was anything interesting.  I am
> doubting there was or I assume I would have heard about it.
>
> I assure you I am not done with this issue, and neither are many from
> this list, and I am, unfortunately, sure it will come up again on this
> list.  As Ari says, if it does and you don't care to talk about it just
> don't open the mail, just as the men who would have been offended by my
> singing should have done what they needed to in order to avoid my singing.
>
> I am grateful for this community, and that we can still hold meaningful
> and important discussions even though we often disagree.
>
> That said, anybody care to respond to my postings about Molly Picon or
> the request for song lyrics?
>
> mit frayndshaft,
> Lorele
>
> Ari Davidow wrote:
>
> >At 11:35 AM 2/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>... It appears to me
> >>that at this juncture, the 2003 quarterly Kol Isha debate, while having some
> >>value, has now ceased to have any purpose, other than a few individuals
> >>debating their personal views, from which they will not deviate.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I can share your hope that those who have said what they have to say a few 
> >times, will feel comfortable moving on. But would rather point out that the 
> >best way to move the list as whole onto new discussion is to provide new 
> >discussion, and not to respond further. To paraphrase Travis T. Hipp, if you 
> >don't like the current discussion, start a juicy new one ;-).
> >
> >I will also encourage those who have moved onto issues of halacha (Jewish 
> >law) (or opposition to same) to move those discussions to private e-mail or 
> >to lists focused on those subjects.
> >
> >But I also want to avoid telling people for whom this matters that they have 
> >had their say and it is now time to move on. It is, rather, the right of 
> >those who have finished their say and want to move on, to do so. I'd like to 
> >avoid the anti-free speech idea that insists that once one person feels it 
> >is time to move on, everyone should simultaneously reach the same conclusion.
> >
> >No one is forced to open e-mail on subjects in which they have no interest, 
> >or no further interest. I encourage all list participants to take advantage 
> >of that e-mail feature as works for them.
> >
> >ari
> >
> >
> >Ari Davidow
> >ari (at) ivritype(dot)com
> >list owner, jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >the klezmer shack: http://www.klezmershack.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> You can now hear Lori's new CD, Songs My Bubbe Should Have Taught Me; Vol.1: 
> Passover, at: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/lcahan Only $15 & postage. Email me 
> for more info.
>
>

--
Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
Adjunct Professor of American and Jewish Studies
Head, Division Of Composition and Music Theory
University of Minnesota
2106 4th St. S
Minneapolis, MN 55455
612 624-7840 612 624-8001 (fax)


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