RE: Kol Isha

[Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl...>]

True, true, but you left out the realm the only that is relevant to this 
discussion, i.e., the religious realm.  You are not equal if you have to: 
sit upstairs by yourselves; or you can't read from the torah the way a man 
can (no matter how well you can read trope); or be counted in a minyan (no 
matter how many of your women friends you bring along); or if you can't 
lead the congregation in a nigun the way any man can; or daven so loudly 
that you can be heard downstairs; or wear pants the way a man can, or wear 
shorts the way a man can, etc., etc., etc.

Please, been there, done that.


Reyzl


----------
From:  Steven M. Singer [SMTP:ssinger (at) orion(dot)it(dot)luc(dot)edu]
Sent:  Friday, September 24, 1999 5:27 PM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant
Subject:  RE: Kol Isha

On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky wrote:

> You are again mixing the movements up.  Egalitarianism is par course in
> all movements except Orthodoxy.

Webster defines "egalitarian" as .. "adhering to the philosophy of
political, economic, and social equality between all human beings."
Modern Orthodoxy certainly does not provide "equal" (read: identical)
roles and opportunities.  But I think that it would be unfair to say that
"egalitarianism" - as Webster defines it is absent from Orthodoxy.

-S




>
> >Women hold a revered and
> >important place in the Orthodox theology and practice.
>
> No more time to argue with this statement, but you should know that it's 
highly specious.
>
> Reyzl
>
>
> ----------
> From:  Steven M. Singer [SMTP:ssinger (at) orion(dot)it(dot)luc(dot)edu]
> Sent:  Friday, September 24, 1999 2:15 PM
> To:  World music from a Jewish slant
> Subject:  Re: Kol Isha
>
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 meydele (at) ix(dot)netcom(dot)com wrote:
>
> > Do you make it clear to Orthodox groups that there are 2
> > configurations of your group and they can choose the mixed one?  Would 
it hurt
> > your marketing to do so?
>
> When I feel that there is a possibility of having the mixed group 
perform,
> that is what I suggest.  However, sometimes it is clear as day that an 
all
> male group is needed.  At the present, none of our marketing materials
> show any bias to different audiences.  I simply put a line at the bottom
> of our newspaper ads that say "all male ensemble available".
>
> > It took women in the US more than 50 years of organizing at all levels 
of militancy to get the
> > vote.  But it was a movement started by women, not by men, that 
ultimately changed societal
> > perceptions of what is appropriate.  Same thing with civil rights for 
African-Americans.  So, what
> > can we as musicians and interested members of the greater Jewish 
community do to effect change,
> > even if in small, incremental steps, on this issue?
>
> I think that suffrage and civil rights arguments cannot be equated with
> the supposed "chauvinism" of Jewish Orthodoxy.  Women hold a revered and
> important place in the Orthodox theology and practice.  As far as "civil
> rights" progress, I think that the mere presence of the "egalitarian"
> movement has already established that women, and not just men can
> participate in the ritual aspects of Judaism.
>
> -S
>
>
> >
> > Shira
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



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