Re: dead (wild) horses couldn't stop ...

[TTova <TTova...>]

hear hear shirona I too can't believe the attempt to stifle this the 
most enaging thread I have seen on the list to date...

personally I have not been on the list long enough to have read through 
the 3 year old debates.. and I for one find it a fascinating thread to 
follow.. I  have saved many posts for further reference and 
contemplation...
please allow the discussion to end in natural and due course...

and remember healthy discourse and information is worth repeating

with respect

Theresa Tova


http://www.theresatova.com
On Jan 21, 2004, at 8:40 PM, Shirona wrote:

>   I don't think this topic is getting a proper (albeit temporary) 
> "burial".
> To just call it a "dead horse", shrug, and go on to the next thing...? 
> An
> indicator of why important changes "whose time HAS come" go unattended 
> to?
> Too depressing for an optimistic idealist such as myself.
>
>   The one argument I cannot accept is the "enough already".  Most of 
> the
> emails on the list are absolutely useless for me - I'm not interested 
> in
> tsimbles and I don't speak Yiddish, unfortunately, and I can tell in a
> glance if the incoming message is worth reading.  I'm sure everyone 
> else
> does the same.  So if any of you are sick and tired of the KI debate - 
> just
> hit delete, and let those who care about it continue the discussion!
>
>   Next I need to correct Sam.  The titling of the first email that 
> started
> this KI round was not "gratuitous" - it was deliberate. The parallels 
> are
> unmistakable. A small dose of "pain and discomfort" at the thought that
> Judaism has *anything* in common with...you know who... is exactly 
> what I
> had in mind. And to assume that no one "advanced their knowledge on the
> subject" is presumptuous too - I for one DID. I'd like to believe that
> others did too.
>
>   There are new ideas whose time has come, and there are old ideas 
> whose
> time has past.  It took a civil war for slavery to be abolished, it 
> took (I
> don't know how long) for women to get the right to vote, and one day 
> all
> forms of Gender Apartheid will fade into HIS -STORY.  One day in the
> future - all men and women will stand equally before G-d, and all laws
> governing men and women will be created by men AND women, whether 
> religious
> or secular.  This is my wish for humanity...you can agree or disagree.
>
>   Shirona
>
>   Sam Weiss wrote:
>> I'm finally joining the fray this time around, since Judith's question
>> points to exactly why I have not done so earlier.  I agree with Simon
> here,
>> and would say that "Jewish music" is a thin figleaf over the volatile
>> subject of Kol Isha which, as it inevitably gets treated on this list,
> is
>> essentially a discussion of Jewish cultural history, Jewish religion
>> (principally Orthodox-bashing), communal politics, gender politics,
> labor
>> practices, etc.  It is always a case of the tail (in subject matter as
> well
>> as level of discourse) wagging the horse of Jewish music.  This is 
>> borne
>> out by the "Unsubscribe" requests that usually follow the onslaught.
> The
>> current iteration was initiated by my friend Shirona's gratuitous
> titling
>> of a forwarded article "Afghan Pop Singer Breaks Tv Taboo" as "Kol
> (Isha)
>> Afghanistan."   Given our listserve's history, this titling had the
>> intended effect of exhuming prior discussions on Jewish cultural
> history,
>> Jewish religion, communal politics, gender politics and labor 
>> practices.
> I
>> don't recall any advancement of our knowledge of Afghani or Jewish 
>> music
> on
>> this thread.  Shirona claims that her goal was expanding our
> consciousness,
>> but I would respectfully submit that her goal was to expand our
>> consciousness in one particular direction; otherwise, the only thing
> that
>> was expanded was our blood-pressure.  She also writes that "some of us
> on
>> this list can be in a position to make a decision that would result in
>> women singing or not singing at some future event."  This is indeed a
>> worthwhile goal, and I'm eager to hear if anyone on this list feels 
>> that
>> our discussions have or will have that effect.  I understand the need 
>> to
>> vent frustrations, and believe me I empathize entirely with the cause 
>> --
> I
>> deal constantly with gender politics disguised as Jewish tradition in 
>> my
>> line of work and in my particular congregation.  But I question if our
>> discussions on =this= list will have the desired effect.
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Cantor Sam Weiss === Jewish Community Center of Paramus, NJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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