Re: dead (wild) horses couldn't stop ...

[lenka lichtenberg <lenkal...>]

dear all, 
       this is the third time that the KI debate has been debated on the list 
in the short time (3 years i believe) that i have had the pleasure to be this 
list's member - its reocurrence in itself a testament that nothing has been 
resolved, while it remains a painful reality for many of us female 
practitioners of jewish music. an idealistic optimist myself, i agree with you, 
shirona, 1000% that unles talked about, any glimmer of hope for any change in 
the status quo remains an "impossible dream"...how else does anything change at 
all? but maybe, equality before G-d - in its practical sense of who is allowed 
to do what where - is an idea whose time has not yet come. i vote for shelving 
the discussion for now, and then revisiting the topic every 2 years (in the 
manner of the Council of Trent's debates of needed church (sorry) reforms); 
let's see if/when we arrive to some new approaches or even real solutions, 
should such be possible at all - as i hope. 
     with great respect to all that voiced their opinions,
lenka 
lenka lichtenberg, world and yiddish music performer and singer/songwriter; for 
audio clips, free mp3s and performance updates visit www.lenkalichtenberg.com 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Shirona 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:40 PM
  Subject: Re: dead (wild) horses couldn't stop ...


    I don't think this topic is getting a proper (albeit temporary) "burial".
  To just call it a "dead horse", shrug, and go on to the next thing...? An
  indicator of why important changes "whose time HAS come" go unattended to?
  Too depressing for an optimistic idealist such as myself.

    The one argument I cannot accept is the "enough already".  Most of the
  emails on the list are absolutely useless for me - I'm not interested in
  tsimbles and I don't speak Yiddish, unfortunately, and I can tell in a
  glance if the incoming message is worth reading.  I'm sure everyone else
  does the same.  So if any of you are sick and tired of the KI debate - just
  hit delete, and let those who care about it continue the discussion!

    Next I need to correct Sam.  The titling of the first email that started
  this KI round was not "gratuitous" - it was deliberate. The parallels are
  unmistakable. A small dose of "pain and discomfort" at the thought that
  Judaism has *anything* in common with...you know who... is exactly what I
  had in mind. And to assume that no one "advanced their knowledge on the
  subject" is presumptuous too - I for one DID. I'd like to believe that
  others did too.

    There are new ideas whose time has come, and there are old ideas whose
  time has past.  It took a civil war for slavery to be abolished, it took (I
  don't know how long) for women to get the right to vote, and one day all
  forms of Gender Apartheid will fade into HIS -STORY.  One day in the
  future - all men and women will stand equally before G-d, and all laws
  governing men and women will be created by men AND women, whether religious
  or secular.  This is my wish for humanity...you can agree or disagree.

    Shirona

    Sam Weiss wrote:
    > I'm finally joining the fray this time around, since Judith's question
    > points to exactly why I have not done so earlier.  I agree with Simon
  here,
    > and would say that "Jewish music" is a thin figleaf over the volatile
    > subject of Kol Isha which, as it inevitably gets treated on this list,
  is
    > essentially a discussion of Jewish cultural history, Jewish religion
    > (principally Orthodox-bashing), communal politics, gender politics,
  labor
    > practices, etc.  It is always a case of the tail (in subject matter as
  well
    > as level of discourse) wagging the horse of Jewish music.  This is borne
    > out by the "Unsubscribe" requests that usually follow the onslaught.
  The
    > current iteration was initiated by my friend Shirona's gratuitous
  titling
    > of a forwarded article "Afghan Pop Singer Breaks Tv Taboo" as "Kol
  (Isha)
    > Afghanistan."   Given our listserve's history, this titling had the
    > intended effect of exhuming prior discussions on Jewish cultural
  history,
    > Jewish religion, communal politics, gender politics and labor practices.
  I
    > don't recall any advancement of our knowledge of Afghani or Jewish music
  on
    > this thread.  Shirona claims that her goal was expanding our
  consciousness,
    > but I would respectfully submit that her goal was to expand our
    > consciousness in one particular direction; otherwise, the only thing
  that
    > was expanded was our blood-pressure.  She also writes that "some of us
  on
    > this list can be in a position to make a decision that would result in
    > women singing or not singing at some future event."  This is indeed a
    > worthwhile goal, and I'm eager to hear if anyone on this list feels that
    > our discussions have or will have that effect.  I understand the need to
    > vent frustrations, and believe me I empathize entirely with the cause --
  I
    > deal constantly with gender politics disguised as Jewish tradition in my
    > line of work and in my particular congregation.  But I question if our
    > discussions on =this= list will have the desired effect.
    >
    >
    >
    > _____________________________________________________________
    > Cantor Sam Weiss === Jewish Community Center of Paramus, NJ
    >
    >
    >
    >



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