Re: "Kol (Isha)" sort of

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

First of all, I am not going to enter this year's fracas, since much of what
I said last round seemed to me  misinterpreted and I still bear scar tissue.

Permit me a few "thoughts out loud" especially directed at the question of
"the chain of command" of authority.

It seems to me that the chain of command within Judaism and subsequent
interpretations have so evolved and been re-interpreted that outside of
certain keystone core values and beliefs about the nature of G-d and man's
relation to G-d, there's little resemblance from the days of Mt. Sinai to
the heyday of the Temple in Yerushalayim to the present.

Pre Temple Judaic practices were quite different from the era of the two
Temples.

After the destruction of the First  Temple, and a brief exile in Babylonia,
the big push was to return and rebuild the Temple. But after the fall of the
Second Temple,  Yokhanan Ben Zakai set up his academy at Yavneh and Rabbinic
or Halakhic Judaism, no longer Temple based (although references and
symbolic practices connected with it. abound.) began to flourish as a
response to the lack of a single homeland, to the reality of Diaspora life.

Halakhic Judaism with geographically-scattered rabbinic authorities and
opinions in the drivers seat replaced Temple Judaism with its clear-cut
priestly authority.

Isn't it interesting that even today, when Jerusalem is the capital of
modern Israel, there's no big Third Temple movement going on?  The reality
of whose real estate the space is comes into play of course. But it is no
longer the absolute dead center of our religious faith and practice..

Conclusion. We have evolved. We have moved on. Today's Judaism, even Ultra
Orthodoxy is very different from that of 2000 years ago.

Think out loud.  Are we perhaps in a post-Halakhic state of development, in
a transition from one seat of authority (rabbinic) to something else,
perhaps more communal, more democratic?

Now this doesn't mean we throw out everything -  Pre Temple times are
reflected in many of our holidays and of course in Shabes - Temple practices
are still symbolically there - Peysakh pops to mind - Rabbis will probably
be there and the wisdom of the ages and sages will always be taken under
advisement -- but their absolute authority comes continually under question.
Even some Orthodox women are questioning certain limitations and practices.

So stay tuned. As my beloved father used to say - a mekhaye tsu zayn a yid.
A pleasure to be a Jew.


Sylvia Schildt
Baltimore, Maryland




on 1/15/04 3:33 PM, Shirona at shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net wrote:

> Thanks Alana for all the illuminating information.  No wonder this issue
> is so controversial - one needs a law degree just to sift through the
> facts - never mind how they get interpreted.  If what you are saying is
> true - that the Halacha on Kol Isha is ambiguous and unclear - then the
> eventual "understanding" of this Halacha is even more upsetting. Otherwise
> we wouldn't be having these discussions.
> 
> The first I ever heard about KI was from my Grandmother Z"L who was born
> in a Russian Shtetle. "Girls weren't allowed to sing in the old country",
> she told me.  It was that simple. Seems like for most folks who adhere to
> Orthodoxy is still is THAT SIMPLE, otherwise we wouldn't be having these
> discussions!  The "heavy handed" way in which this "law" is enforced is what
> we are mostly talking about.  Many women on this list, myself included,
> suffered personally and professionally from this "law" - or rather the
> unambiguous way in which some men chose to enforce the law.
> 
> As for the divinity of Jewish Law - I have some questions for the
> scholars.
> 
> Alana Suskin wrote:
>> Judaism doesn't have a legislative system, we
>> have a judicial system. Laws can't be changed becasue
>> they're divine, but they are interpreted each
> 
> Jordan Hirsch wrote:
>> As an observant, orthodox adherent, one believes
>> that the words of Rabbinical authorities are extensions of and indeed
> mandated
>> by the authority of God, as handed down in an unbroken chain from Mt.
> Sinai.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1.What is the "cutoff" point for divine laws? Did laws ever stop being
> "divine"? Are all rabbinic rulings, including in the PRESENT considered
> "divine"?  If so - does it matter what denomination the rabbi is?  What
> about female rabbis?
> 
> 2.Was the "unbroken chain from Mt. Sinai" awarded to men only?  By who? By
> G-d?   Where is it "written", and who wrote it...?
> 
> 3. A matter of opinion: Is "divinity" transmitted by males only - a
> property of the Y chromosome?
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan Hirsch wrote:
>> in favor of what they feel is a higher authority. That may be hard for us
> to
>> swallow, but religion is a funny thing. It does not demand rational
> thought,
>> but belief in something beyond human reasoning.
> 
> 1. How does this argument differ ("religion does not demand rational
> thought") *in principal*  from ANY religious belief - including those who
> produce suicide bombers?
> 
> 2.  I always thought that in Judaism we were supposed to use "rational
> thought"- debate, argue and question EVERYTHING - with once exception - the
> existence of G-d. Everything else can and SHOULD be debated, no?
> 
> 3. At what point are we "allowed" to use our own conscience, hearts and
> minds - rather than rely on ancient ("divine") rulings?  Is Judaism telling
> us "don't think, just go ask the rabbi"? "Look it up in the Talmud"?
> 
> I really do want to know.
> 
> Shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> www.shirona.com
> www.cdbaby.com/shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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