Re: Kol Isha Redux

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

We are not talking about Shir Isha, but Kol Isha. And ullulation is pretty
exotic/erotic, depending upon your point of "hearing".


Sylvia Schildt


on 3/2/03 1:05 PM, Alex J. Lubet at lubet001 (at) umn(dot)edu wrote:

> I'm not sure this will help, but what we seem to have here is a conflict in
> terms of how singing and music are defined, with obvious implication for Kol
> Isha.  This sort of division takes place in many cultures and it's
> fascinating.
> Amnon Shiloah talks a bit about it in Jewish Musical Traditions, though not on
> this issue.  It's a book that's not universally admired, BTW.
> 
> 
> 
> Sylvia Schildt wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for mixing my metaphors for me.
>> 
>> This anecdotal case had nothing to do with minority, majority of people. But
>> it did go to show that one half of the guests held the other "hostage" and
>> prevented them from celebrating in their normal way for an inordinate amount
>> of the time allotted for the entire wedding. Again, had it been a wedding on
>> Black Hat turf, the issue would not have come up. The few visitors would
>> have adapted themselves.
>> 
>> And as to the discussion about these proscriptions being "authorized from on
>> high" - this too is debatable.
>> 
>> How different are those arguments from halakhic authority different from
>> Talibanic reasoning that forced the women of Afghanistan to wear burkas?
>> 
>> Re: ullulation. What an interesting observation.  Because by the way, the
>> women at this wedding ullulated during the ceremony and at the recessional.
>> In the sanctuary yet. I hadn't stopped to think - isn't this also Kol
>> Isha.?????  So what have we got here - selective Kol Isha?
>> 
>> on 3/2/03 11:31 AM, avi finegold at afinegold (at) yahoo(dot)com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> --- Sylvia Schildt <creativa (at) charm(dot)net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Come now, come now. There's more to Kashrut than
>>>> eschewing shrimp salad or
>>>> Beef Wellington.  It's a whole lot of halakha about
>>>> the state of the stove,
>>>> the pots and pans, what china and silver to use,
>>>> even for the same dishes
>>>> like roast chicken.  I don't think in general that
>>>> serving kosher is going
>>>> to ruin an affair for the non-observant.Except maybe
>>>> those who feel that
>>>> kosher meat is too salty and dry (I'm not one of
>>>> them).
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> some people seem to think so
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> But back to the wedding as a moshel ...
>>>> 
>>>> Half the guests were Black Hats. And their "rules"
>>>> ruled the wedding
>>>> ceremony, seating arrangements, placement of a
>>>> screen, separate dancing,
>>>> etc. - all but the last half hour or so was run
>>>> their way. This meant that
>>>> the rest of us sat on our hands and were decidedly
>>>> uncomfortable, trying to
>>>> put a good face on it for the sake of our
>>>> relationship to the Bride and her
>>>> parents.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> if half the guests were religious then you hardly have
>>> a case of the minority ruling the affair. and even if
>>> so my point still stands. if the bride and groom wish
>>> to respect the wishes of even one guest then isnt that
>>> their prerogative? and furthermore, who says you have
>>> to sit on your hands? is it completely forbidden to
>>> dance separately? is it a given that you wont have any
>>> fun at all??
>>> 
>>> 
>>> avi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
> 
> --
> Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
> Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
> Adjunct Professor of American and Jewish Studies
> Head, Division Of Composition and Music Theory
> University of Minnesota
> 2106 4th St. S
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> 612 624-7840 612 624-8001 (fax)
> 
> 
> 

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