Re: Kol Isha Redux

[Alex J. Lubet <lubet001...>]

I'm not sure this will help, but what we seem to have here is a conflict in
terms of how singing and music are defined, with obvious implication for Kol
Isha.  This sort of division takes place in many cultures and it's fascinating.
Amnon Shiloah talks a bit about it in Jewish Musical Traditions, though not on
this issue.  It's a book that's not universally admired, BTW.



Sylvia Schildt wrote:

> Thanks for mixing my metaphors for me.
>
> This anecdotal case had nothing to do with minority, majority of people. But
> it did go to show that one half of the guests held the other "hostage" and
> prevented them from celebrating in their normal way for an inordinate amount
> of the time allotted for the entire wedding. Again, had it been a wedding on
> Black Hat turf, the issue would not have come up. The few visitors would
> have adapted themselves.
>
> And as to the discussion about these proscriptions being "authorized from on
> high" - this too is debatable.
>
> How different are those arguments from halakhic authority different from
> Talibanic reasoning that forced the women of Afghanistan to wear burkas?
>
> Re: ullulation. What an interesting observation.  Because by the way, the
> women at this wedding ullulated during the ceremony and at the recessional.
> In the sanctuary yet. I hadn't stopped to think - isn't this also Kol
> Isha.?????  So what have we got here - selective Kol Isha?
>
> on 3/2/03 11:31 AM, avi finegold at afinegold (at) yahoo(dot)com wrote:
>
> >
> > --- Sylvia Schildt <creativa (at) charm(dot)net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Come now, come now. There's more to Kashrut than
> >> eschewing shrimp salad or
> >> Beef Wellington.  It's a whole lot of halakha about
> >> the state of the stove,
> >> the pots and pans, what china and silver to use,
> >> even for the same dishes
> >> like roast chicken.  I don't think in general that
> >> serving kosher is going
> >> to ruin an affair for the non-observant.Except maybe
> >> those who feel that
> >> kosher meat is too salty and dry (I'm not one of
> >> them).
> >>
> >
> > some people seem to think so
> >
> >
> >> But back to the wedding as a moshel ...
> >>
> >> Half the guests were Black Hats. And their "rules"
> >> ruled the wedding
> >> ceremony, seating arrangements, placement of a
> >> screen, separate dancing,
> >> etc. - all but the last half hour or so was run
> >> their way. This meant that
> >> the rest of us sat on our hands and were decidedly
> >> uncomfortable, trying to
> >> put a good face on it for the sake of our
> >> relationship to the Bride and her
> >> parents.
> >>
> >
> > if half the guests were religious then you hardly have
> > a case of the minority ruling the affair. and even if
> > so my point still stands. if the bride and groom wish
> > to respect the wishes of even one guest then isnt that
> > their prerogative? and furthermore, who says you have
> > to sit on your hands? is it completely forbidden to
> > dance separately? is it a given that you wont have any
> > fun at all??
> >
> >
> > avi
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>

--
Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
Adjunct Professor of American and Jewish Studies
Head, Division Of Composition and Music Theory
University of Minnesota
2106 4th St. S
Minneapolis, MN 55455
612 624-7840 612 624-8001 (fax)


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