Re: kol isha

[George Robinson <GRComm...>]

A Jewish mother who wants to talk about her children?
Color me shocked.

George (Even my mother who became a Lutheran likes to talk about me
still) Robinson


Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky wrote:
> 
> This child voluntarily listens to Mozart and other classical music and can
> play on it on the piano too, but at a bat-mitsva?   Remember, I am the one
> who posted here that people don't play enough Jewish music at simkhas.
> 
> She says she hates klezmer music and refuses to go to klezmer concerts with
> us.  That is, klezmer music as opposed to Yiddish folk music, which she
> likes very much.  A native Yiddish speaker (the only language in which her
> parents speak to her from day one), she has publicly performed Yiddish
> songs very well too.  It was a real argument with her, and we had to put
> our foot down.  I know it sounds strange, but it's true.
> 
> Thank God she hates Eminem's lyrics too.  I was so glad that after my
> saying that all the music presented at this year's Grammy's (only watched
> while making dinner) was bad, she totally agreed, thank God.  But then this
> child is every mother's dream of an ideal child and a special blessing from
> God to her mother.
> 
> It doesn't take much to get me talking about my children.
> 
> Reyzl
> 
> ----------
> From:  George Robinson [SMTP:GRComm (at) concentric(dot)net]
> Sent:  Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:52 PM
> To:  World music from a Jewish slant
> Subject:  Re: kol isha
> 
> She wants Mozart and you're complaining? Would you prefer maybe Eminem?
> 
> By the way, to get back on topic a little, while I won't dispute Reyzl's
> observations -- I'm sure she's quite right on this -- there was an
> interesting story in the New York Times a month or two ago about the
> changing status of women in the NYC Hasidic community. How much change
> that involves is open to interpretation, of course, but if it was enough
> for the Times to notice it's worth looking at.
> 
> George Robinson
> 
> Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky wrote:
> >
> > Margot,
> >
> > I don't know about the slightly more liberal Lubavitch case, where one
> > woman in a band was acceptable, but Hasidim don't want _star_ women
> > instrumentalists like you Margot to perform.  I would bet any money in
> the
> > world that it wasn't that they didn't like your demo or your playing.
> >  There are all kinds of Orthodox communities and one can not always group
> > them together on every issue, but almost all Hasidim will not hire a
> woman,
> > because they don't want the girls/women in their community to see bad
> > models of womanhood.  And you is a bad model of womanhood, Margot :).
>  They
> > don't want the girls to see Jewish women who are not home- and
> > children-centered, working in the evening instead of tending to their
> > families, pursuing artistic careers, and, most especially, _enjoying_
> those
> > attention-filled solos that a wonderful clarinetist like you gets.  I am
> > sorry Margot, but your wonderful playing makes you stand out :).
>  Standing
> > out could easily make a woman immodest.  Modesty is an issue, because
> where
> > would the band with a woman be placed, in the women's or the men's
> section?
> >  A woman, and especially a woman star instrumentalist, will also get the
> > men looking and fantasizing about her.  Tse, tse, tse.  AND, the fact
> that
> > you are single is especially bad, Margot.  They don't want the girls to
> see
> > any such behavior rewarded in any kind of way.  Seriously, this is the
> > community's social control and there is nothing personal about it.  Your
> > being an excellent musician IS the problem.  If a woman instrumentalist
> is
> > just adequate and can quietly blend in with the men, without standing out
> > in any way, that might be tolerable, if no other bands are available that
> > night.   (That's what "it depends" means.)  But your demo clearly shows
> > that that you are not _just adequate_.
> >
> > A woman travelling with all those men musicians, especially if her
> husband
> > is not one of the men?  Oy, yoy yoy.  All kinds of problems will arise,
> > negiya, possible inappropriate social and emotional intimacy between men
> > and women, loss on the focus of the mistva of "mesameyakh zayn khosn
> kale"
> > [=creating joy for the bride and groom], etc.  Also, a few very Orthodox
> > women have begun entering the working world and this is creating all
> kinds
> > of problems in the frum communities, especially, if those jobs are
> outside
> > the heavily controlled frum venues.  You have to go to the rebbe and have
> > his OK for jobs like that, and rebbes rarely OK them.  The rabbis in the
> > standard Orthodox communities are losing some control with more and more
> > Orthodox women entering the work force.  This is scary across the board.
> >  Kids taking drugs and tuning out of Orthodoxy is no longer an
> unknown/rare
> > phenomenon in the Orthodox world.  They recently created a yeshiva for
> > these kids in Brooklyn.  They blame these problems of course on the
> working
> > women.
> >
> > I know they have a lot of weddings and you could get nightly jobs, but
> > forget them, Margot.  Perhaps find the girl yeshivas and the event
> > organizers there.  You could get to the women organizations, which
> > regularly make women's events and women's melave malkas for you to play
> at.
> >  Those women might, might be more amenable.  Or maybe claim that all your
> > musicians are your brothers and cousins :).
> >
> > P.S.  Margot and her band played at our daughter's bat mitsva, November
> > '99.  That is, after the first hour of Mozart sonatas by a concert
> pianist
> > - music our daughter insisted upon.  We had to insist on klezmer music.
>  It
> > takes all kinds of kids, but, of course, only the kid of a klezmer will
> ask
> > for Mozart sonatas at her bat-mitsva.  Margot was wonderful and all our
> > friends loved her.
> >
> > Reyzl
> >
> > ----------
> > From:  Margotlev (at) aol(dot)com [SMTP:Margotlev (at) aol(dot)com]
> > Sent:  Tuesday, February 27, 2001 11:38 PM
> > To:  World music from a Jewish slant
> > Subject:  Re: kol isha
> >
> > Robert,
> > it's a sensitive question, since we never know for sure why we aren't
> hired
> > -
> > maybe they just don't like my clarinet playing.   And there have been
> some
> > occasions where I have been hired by Orthodox and Hassidim, especially in
> > smaller cities where it was an issue of male musicians not being
> available.
> > I've asked my male colleagues in NY if would be possible for me to get
> > wedding work in those communities in NY and the answer was 'not in this
> > lifetime.'   I get inquiries, then the client decides I would not be
> > "appropriate" for a job, I explain that I dress modestly and don't sing,
> > but
> > they still don't hire me - but you never know, maybe they didn't like the
> > demo, or maybe another band was cheaper.  It happens all the time and you
> > never know the reason for sure.
> >  I don't know any women instrumentalists who are working in those
> > communities
> > in NY, but if they are I would LOVE to know about it  Meanwhile, I've
> been
> > asked to play Carlebach tunes for an upcoming Purim event (on a volunteer
> > basis)  and I intend to bring the house down.  Excuse me.  It's a tiny
> > crack
> > in the door so I'm going to see if I can get my foot in.
> >
> >   I was really trying to make the point that it becomes ridiculous for
> > religious groups to point the accusing finger of sexism at each other
> when
> > the discrimination has been almost completely universal until very
> > recently.
> >   Margot
> >
> 
> --
> George Robinson
> Author, Essential Judaism
> Please visit my website, "Essential Judaism and Beyond"
> at www.GeorgeRobinson.freeservers.com
> 

-- 
George Robinson
Author, Essential Judaism
Please visit my website, "Essential Judaism and Beyond"
at www.GeorgeRobinson.freeservers.com

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