Re: oyf(n) vs. af(n)

[Trudi Goodman <goobietheg...>]

Joe:
  You know what...there is more than one kind of Yiddish and more than one 
kind of pronounciation...aside from what's on the page or what Weinreich 
says. Check it out. As for my friend's Yiddish...take it up with him if 
you've got the kishkes...he's a Native Speaker and a Galician and a 
Litvaker...I'm sure he'll be amused by the references. I also get very tired 
of this Besser a Litvak vi a Galitzianer crap.  I personally find it 
xenophobic.
Sometimes I get so sick of this snobbery thing of who "owns" Yiddish and who 
speaks it "correctly".   With the exception of some of the more learned and 
Native-speaking people on this list...whose judgement I bow to ... and whose 
knowledge is based on the everyday use of the language ...many of us are 
novices...some more than others.
   As my Bubbie would say.  Genug already...and just answer the question.

     Trudi the G



>From: Joe Kurland <ganeydn (at) crocker(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: oyf(n) vs. af(n)
>Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 23:10:26 -0400
>
>Tell me if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to remember
>that at Columbia we were taught af and afn though in most other
>instances, vov-yud would be pronounced oy in standard Yiddish.
>Weinreich gives af when used as a preposition but gives no
>tranliteration when alef-vov-yud-fe is used as an adjective or as
>part of a separable verb, indicating that it would then be pronounced
>phonetically, or oyf.  Of course "Standard" Yiddish is a made up
>composite dialect.  My father, a litvak, who always pronounces it af,
>asks me where I learned to speak Yiddish like a Galitsyaner.  I tell
>him he should have taught me to speak Yiddish when I was a child.
>
>As for songs,  I tend to sing them in (or as close as I can to) the
>dialect in which I hear them on in source material, or in klal (Yivo
>standard) Yiddish.  But sometimes rhyme patterns give away
>information about the dialect because the rhyme only works in some
>dialects.
>
>As for Ikh and Ish, Ish sounds pretty daytshmerish to me, thought
>there might be some dialect on Yiddish in which it was commonly used
>other than to apear "high class."  "a bisl hier un a bisl do"
>actually means "a little here and a little here."  Rather than
>"neither here nor there" it's using the Germanic or daytshmerish
>"hier" and the Yiddish "do" which mean the same thing.  In other
>words, it either means, you could say the same thing two ways, or it
>means you could say it like a German (or a Jew with pretensions to
>being an assimilated German), or you could say it like a Jew.
>
>Zayt gezunt (be healthy),
>
>Yosl (Joe) Kurland
>The Wholesale Klezmer Band
>Colrain, MA 01340
>voice/fax: 413-624-3204
>http://www.WholesaleKlezmer.com
>
>At 8:34 AM -0700 7/5/00, Trudi Goodman wrote:
>>  Tayere Lorele:
>>   I seem to remember from an Aaron Lansky course I took years ago,
>>that there are about 6 main dialects and 12-14 subdialects in
>>Yiddish. My rule is I will sing it according to what's written on
>>the page.  If it's something that someone has taught me..I ask where
>>they learned it and if they know a written form.
>>   Sometimes though it's your guess is as good as mine.  I remember
>>having a conversation with a Canadian doctor in Yiddish and I said
>>Ich for I...because that's how I've seen it on the page... his
>>response...No it's Ish...I checked with friends...some said Ich some
>>Ish....and as a good friend who speaks Yiddish, Dietmarish and
>>German says...A bissel hier a bissel do. (rogh translation..neither
>>here nor there)
>>Trudi the G
>>
>>
>>>From: Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org>
>>>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>>>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>>Subject: oyf(n) vs. af(n)
>>>Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:41:00 -0400
>>>
>>>Tayer khaverim,
>>>
>>>I have a question for the Yidish shprakhers among us as to the
>>>pronunciation of vav, yud, fey, which I am also asking on Mendele.  I
>>>generally see it written as oyf, but have been told that it is generally
>>>pronounced  af.  Nu, who says what in what dialect?  And then, what
>>>about vav, yud, fey, nun?  Is it oyfn or afn, as in oyfn pripetshik (or
>>>is it pripitshok?)  I know it is not this simple, but what does a
>>>"standard" Yiddish "du" speaker say as opposed to a "di" speaker?  Help
>>>me, please!  I need to know how to sing my lyrics properly.
>>>
>>>A hartsikn dank in foroys,
>>>Lorele
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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