Re: oyf(n) vs. af(n)

[Joe Kurland <ganeydn...>]

Tell me if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to remember 
that at Columbia we were taught af and afn though in most other 
instances, vov-yud would be pronounced oy in standard Yiddish. 
Weinreich gives af when used as a preposition but gives no 
tranliteration when alef-vov-yud-fe is used as an adjective or as 
part of a separable verb, indicating that it would then be pronounced 
phonetically, or oyf.  Of course "Standard" Yiddish is a made up 
composite dialect.  My father, a litvak, who always pronounces it af, 
asks me where I learned to speak Yiddish like a Galitsyaner.  I tell 
him he should have taught me to speak Yiddish when I was a child.

As for songs,  I tend to sing them in (or as close as I can to) the 
dialect in which I hear them on in source material, or in klal (Yivo 
standard) Yiddish.  But sometimes rhyme patterns give away 
information about the dialect because the rhyme only works in some 
dialects.

As for Ikh and Ish, Ish sounds pretty daytshmerish to me, thought 
there might be some dialect on Yiddish in which it was commonly used 
other than to apear "high class."  "a bisl hier un a bisl do" 
actually means "a little here and a little here."  Rather than 
"neither here nor there" it's using the Germanic or daytshmerish 
"hier" and the Yiddish "do" which mean the same thing.  In other 
words, it either means, you could say the same thing two ways, or it 
means you could say it like a German (or a Jew with pretensions to 
being an assimilated German), or you could say it like a Jew.

Zayt gezunt (be healthy),

Yosl (Joe) Kurland
The Wholesale Klezmer Band
Colrain, MA 01340
voice/fax: 413-624-3204
http://www.WholesaleKlezmer.com

At 8:34 AM -0700 7/5/00, Trudi Goodman wrote:
>  Tayere Lorele:
>   I seem to remember from an Aaron Lansky course I took years ago, 
>that there are about 6 main dialects and 12-14 subdialects in 
>Yiddish. My rule is I will sing it according to what's written on 
>the page.  If it's something that someone has taught me..I ask where 
>they learned it and if they know a written form.
>   Sometimes though it's your guess is as good as mine.  I remember 
>having a conversation with a Canadian doctor in Yiddish and I said 
>Ich for I...because that's how I've seen it on the page... his 
>response...No it's Ish...I checked with friends...some said Ich some 
>Ish....and as a good friend who speaks Yiddish, Dietmarish and 
>German says...A bissel hier a bissel do. (rogh translation..neither 
>here nor there)
>Trudi the G
>
>
>>From: Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org>
>>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>Subject: oyf(n) vs. af(n)
>>Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:41:00 -0400
>>
>>Tayer khaverim,
>>
>>I have a question for the Yidish shprakhers among us as to the
>>pronunciation of vav, yud, fey, which I am also asking on Mendele.  I
>>generally see it written as oyf, but have been told that it is generally
>>pronounced  af.  Nu, who says what in what dialect?  And then, what
>>about vav, yud, fey, nun?  Is it oyfn or afn, as in oyfn pripetshik (or
>>is it pripitshok?)  I know it is not this simple, but what does a
>>"standard" Yiddish "du" speaker say as opposed to a "di" speaker?  Help
>>me, please!  I need to know how to sing my lyrics properly.
>>
>>A hartsikn dank in foroys,
>>Lorele
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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