Re: oyf(n) vs. af(n)

[Carol Freeman <tsipra...>]

Dialectical issues in Yiddish songs are a major concern for non-native
speakers because so much of the repertoire was so widespread geographically,
and sometimes it's hard to decide exactly what to do with a given text. It's
also hard to get dialectical clarity on texts taken from printed sources
because so many of the native speakers of these dialects are now gone. One
alternative solution, if you know where you want to geographically place a
song, is to engage the services of a Yiddish linguist who specializes in
regional dialects. It might be good to put together a list of such people -
Reizl Kalifowicz Waletsky says she knows dialects very well. Also, Jeff
Warschauer told me he has a friend who is expert at this, although I don't
remember who he was. (By the way, it's good to keep in mind that these
linguists need to earn a living, just like we musicians do, and their
expertise should be paid or bartered for, the same way you would hopefully
pay for your instrumental or vocal instruction. There is a limit to the
amount of free information that can be appropriately schnured off of a
list-serve.)


Joe Kurland wrote:

> Tell me if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to remember
> that at Columbia we were taught af and afn though in most other
> instances, vov-yud would be pronounced oy in standard Yiddish.
> Weinreich gives af when used as a preposition but gives no
> tranliteration when alef-vov-yud-fe is used as an adjective or as
> part of a separable verb, indicating that it would then be pronounced
> phonetically, or oyf.  Of course "Standard" Yiddish is a made up
> composite dialect.  My father, a litvak, who always pronounces it af,
> asks me where I learned to speak Yiddish like a Galitsyaner.  I tell
> him he should have taught me to speak Yiddish when I was a child.
>
> As for songs,  I tend to sing them in (or as close as I can to) the
> dialect in which I hear them on in source material, or in klal (Yivo
> standard) Yiddish.  But sometimes rhyme patterns give away
> information about the dialect because the rhyme only works in some
> dialects.
>
> As for Ikh and Ish, Ish sounds pretty daytshmerish to me, thought
> there might be some dialect on Yiddish in which it was commonly used
> other than to apear "high class."  "a bisl hier un a bisl do"
> actually means "a little here and a little here."  Rather than
> "neither here nor there" it's using the Germanic or daytshmerish
> "hier" and the Yiddish "do" which mean the same thing.  In other
> words, it either means, you could say the same thing two ways, or it
> means you could say it like a German (or a Jew with pretensions to
> being an assimilated German), or you could say it like a Jew.
>
> Zayt gezunt (be healthy),
>
> Yosl (Joe) Kurland
> The Wholesale Klezmer Band
> Colrain, MA 01340
> voice/fax: 413-624-3204
> http://www.WholesaleKlezmer.com
>
> At 8:34 AM -0700 7/5/00, Trudi Goodman wrote:
> >  Tayere Lorele:
> >   I seem to remember from an Aaron Lansky course I took years ago,
> >that there are about 6 main dialects and 12-14 subdialects in
> >Yiddish. My rule is I will sing it according to what's written on
> >the page.  If it's something that someone has taught me..I ask where
> >they learned it and if they know a written form.
> >   Sometimes though it's your guess is as good as mine.  I remember
> >having a conversation with a Canadian doctor in Yiddish and I said
> >Ich for I...because that's how I've seen it on the page... his
> >response...No it's Ish...I checked with friends...some said Ich some
> >Ish....and as a good friend who speaks Yiddish, Dietmarish and
> >German says...A bissel hier a bissel do. (rogh translation..neither
> >here nor there)
> >Trudi the G
> >
> >
> >>From: Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org>
> >>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >>Subject: oyf(n) vs. af(n)
> >>Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:41:00 -0400
> >>
> >>Tayer khaverim,
> >>
> >>I have a question for the Yidish shprakhers among us as to the
> >>pronunciation of vav, yud, fey, which I am also asking on Mendele.  I
> >>generally see it written as oyf, but have been told that it is generally
> >>pronounced  af.  Nu, who says what in what dialect?  And then, what
> >>about vav, yud, fey, nun?  Is it oyfn or afn, as in oyfn pripetshik (or
> >>is it pripitshok?)  I know it is not this simple, but what does a
> >>"standard" Yiddish "du" speaker say as opposed to a "di" speaker?  Help
> >>me, please!  I need to know how to sing my lyrics properly.
> >>
> >>A hartsikn dank in foroys,
> >>Lorele
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
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>



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