Re: Germans and Klezmer

[elliott <enr01...>]

I'll second that. We should remember all of them.
        elllllllll
Trudi Goodman wrote:

>   Being a partial Litvaker I would make a bid to remember the Vilna
> Partisians as well and   Abbi Kovner!
>     Trudi the G
>
> >From: elliott <enr01 (at) gnofn(dot)org>
> >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Subject: Re: Germans and Klezmer
> >Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:25:49 -0600
> >
> >Apropo the Warsaw ghetto. It is a very noteworthy but well hidden fact that
> >the
> >Warsaw ghetto heldout against the Germans LONGER  than the   WHOLE COUNTRY
> >OF
> >FRANCE.
> >         ellllllllllllll
> >
> >Leopold Friedman wrote:
> >
> > > Marvin,
> > > Punishment is God's prerogative.
> > > Forgiveness was the prerogative of
> > > those who suffered and died. We may
> > > not presume to act for them.
> > >
> > > I am just asking those well-meaning
> > > (for the most part), talented German
> > > musicians to refrain from intruding in
> > > Yiddish culture if they wish to claim
> > > any sensitivity to human feelings.
> > >
> > > Incidentally, if you were a soldier who
> > > "fought back," I don't think you should so
> > > carelessly repeat that the victims of the
> > > Holocaust didn't fight back, no matter
> > > how little thay had in the way of weapons.
> > > The Warsaw ghetto rose up without help
> > > from the neighboring Poles or the Americans
> > > and, somehow, partisans did what they could
> > > to a degree that exceeded efforts of other
> > > "occupied" nations.
> > >
> > > Josh, Ari,
> > > Whatever their motives, however great
> > > their virtuosity, however innocent and
> > > well-meaning they may be as our fellow
> > > human beings, they must recognize that
> > > the results of their efforts will likely
> > > be received as painful intrusions by those
> > > of us who have "organic" connections to it.
> > >
> > > As an American, I feel contrite about the
> > > atrocities committed in American history
> > > (l'havdil), and I wouldn't presume to
> > > intrude in Native American cultural
> > > activities, for example. And, Ari, I don't
> > > think you should bring up Deir Yassin
> > > (or even Etzion) in the same breath as
> > > the Shoah. If all atrocities are equal,
> > > then denying Germans the moral "right"
> > > to play Klezmer music would be morally
> > > equivalent to what?
> > >
> > > The argument seems to be that playing
> > > Klezmer music is a basic human right to
> > > which these (German) human beings are
> > > just as entitled as any ployni ben ployni.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't deny anyone any human right;
> > > I simply want their "Klezmer" music "out
> > > of my face." I enjoy the music of German
> > > musicians when they play music that is not so
> > > closely tied to this specific Jewish culture
> > > which their nation/society nearly succeeded in
> > > destroying.
> > >
> > > Perhaps such a concert at the site of the
> > > planned Berlin memorial would entice the
> > > mayor of that city to attend. Perhaps a
> > > concert at a street naming organized to
> > > honor Marlene Dietrich or another German
> > > anti-Nazi artist would be a nice gesture.
> > >
> > > I am German born, so I guess I have the
> > > right to be a Klezmer musician, too.
> > > Leopold Friedman
> > >
> > > ------Original Message------
> > > From: "Marvin" <physchem (at) earthlink(dot)net>
> > > To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > > Sent: February 28, 2000 3:17:28 PM GMT
> > > Subject: Re: Germans and Klezmer
> > >
> > > This has been a most significant topic for discussion.  The Torah speaks
> >of
> > > punishing the sins the sons for generations for the sins of the father,
> >but
> > > I see that as the prerogative of G*d to judge that isn't allowed to
> >mankind.
> > >
> > > My experience as a soldier in WW II was in the Pacific, and I hold no
> >grudge
> > > against Japanese, even though there has been nothing much in the way of
> > > apologies from Japanese leaders.  I hold a grudge against the Germans of
> >my
> > > generation who claim they had no idea of what was being done to the
> >Jews,
> > > and especially for those who took part in nay way.  I have no grudge in
> > > general against younger generations.
> > >
> > > I am aware that my experience as a soldier - who had the means to fight
> > > back - is very different from the experience of the victims of the
> > > Holocaust.  I don't fault any surviver who can't find it in his heart to
> > > forgive the children of their oppressors.
> > >
> >
> >
>
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