Re: Jewish music performance series/take1

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

Reyzl,

I know of no "holding" in Conservative or Reform Judaism that converts
are "not quite legitimate Jews."  Nor is that my experience in
practice in such non-Orthodox synagogues as Ansche Chesed (Manhattan),
B'nai Jeshurun (Manhattan), Town & Village (Manhattan), and CSAIR
(Bronx).  All four have many active members who were not born Jewish,
many of whom are "of color".  In all four places, we all make Jewish
liturgical music together without distinction of background.

There may be individuals in these (and other) places who do not
welcome "others" into their self-defined (religious, ethnic,
socio-economic, political...) group.  But that is not representative
of the general feelings in these synagogues or of their rabbis.

In fact, I have met Jews who identify themselves Orthodox who do not
recognize me as being Jewish (perhaps because I didn't go through an
Orthodox conversion -- I was just born Jewish).  And my wife reports
of those who identify themselves as "frum from birth" (FFB) and reject
anyone who is not as a spousal prospect.  I hope that is not
representative of Orthodox Judaism in general.

Bob

P.S. I wonder if your use of the term "halakhic" conversion excludes
Conservative conversions.  Is it your position that Conservative
Judaism is not halakhic Judaism?  That is certainly not how it
identifies itself.  (See Rabbi Joel Roth's "The Halakhic Process: A
Systemic Analysis".)

As to Reform Judaism, it seems to be moving to more traditional
practices itself.


-----Original Message-----
From: Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl (at) flash(dot)net>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: Jewish music performance series/take1


>
>The fact is that if someone goes through a halakhic conversion, the
>Orthodox are the ones who accept converts as legitimate Jews.  It's
the
>Conservative, Reform and generally untrained traditionalist who still
hold
>converts as not quite legitimate Jews.
>
>>I have certainly taken my lumps as  a Jew , a performer and a woman
too.
>So
>I definitely want to see more venues for Women Performers---being
one. But
>>here's where the mixed comes in---I cannot force anyone to like or
want
>me.
>
>There is nothing personal about the ruling of kol-isha.  It's any
woman's
>voice, no matter how well or badly she sings.
>
>>At the same time...if we as Jews do not challenge this stuff,
nothing
>
>At a girl!!!  We have to fight this and never participate in anything
>that includes this rule.  I send my kids to Orthodox yeshiva, but I
>will never go into a shul that has a mekhitsa.
>
>If you tell men that women's singing voices are sexy and will veer
>them off the straight and narrow path, then it can work that way by
>the mere power of suggestion.  Too bad for them.
>
>
>Gut shabes and gut yontev,
>
>Reyzl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------
>From:  Trudi Goodman [SMTP:goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com]
>Sent:  Friday, September 24, 1999 9:32 AM
>To:  World music from a Jewish slant
>Subject:  Re: Jewish music performance series/take1
>
>
>this pisses me off, but I am of a mixed mind about it...as a woman, I
feel
>that the orthodoxy needs to open up it's brain cells and rachmones
and
>tzedakah to include women and others that it doesn't normally
include.  My
>great grandfather was adopted, and some in orthodoxy do not consider
him a
>"legitimate" Jew, even though he lived his whole live as a Jew..and
took
>his
>lumps as one.
>I have certainly taken my lumps as  a Jew , a performer and a woman
too. So
>I definitely want to see more venues for Women Performers---being
one. But
>here's where the mixed comes in---I cannot force anyone to like or
want me.
>At the same time...if we as Jews do not challenge this stuff, nothing
>changes.
>If the whole rest of the world sees me as A Jew and a Woman and I am
often
>penalized for this, unfortunately..though it NEVER stops me from
>being Jewish.  Isn't it time for the Jewish community to?
>Turdi the G
>>From: Halsherm3 (at) aol(dot)com
>>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>Subject: Re: Jewish music performance series
>>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:43:55 EDT
>>
>>In a message dated 9/23/99 2:53:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU
>>writes:
>>
>><< The one major drawback--and I believe it's a big one--is that I
cannot
>>at
>>  this time invite solo women singers. Women instrumentalists are
okay,
>but
>>  in the Orthodox tradition, women vocalists are not. I'm not sure
about
>>  mixed choirs. These are not my personal beliefs, so I apologize to
all
>>the
>>  female singers for this lack of opportunity. There's simply
nothing I
>can
>>  do about it. >>
>>
>>
>>I found this statement to be so completely offensive. Substitute the
word
>>jewish for the word female and read it again. How do you feel?
>>
>>The reaction I had to this was purely from my gut. I realize that it
>wasn't
>>meant to
>>be offensive but it was all the same (IMHO).
>>
>>How do others feel?  Lynn
>>
>>
>
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