Re: Kol Isha

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

on 3/2/03 4:34 PM, Alex Jacobowitz at alexbjacobowitz (at) yahoo(dot)com wrote:

> B"H Munich
> 
> halt! Too many of you Jews are commenting on
> your fellow Jews as if they  were Nazis, Taliban,
> and the Los  Angeles police roled into one!
> Doesn?t anybody here understand Judaism?
> Gosh!
> 
>> You're on the list, too. You have the opportunity to
>> educate everyone as to
>> how Orthodox Jews forbidding women to sing in the
>> presence of men is NOT
>> like fundamentalist Muslims requiring women to wear
>> a burqua.
> 
> Awright, folks, please listen up!
> 1) I can?t speak for fundamentalist Muslims, but from
> what I understand it, they CAN and DO command their
> women what to wear. If the WOMAN violates the command,
> she can be punished, even in public.
> The woman is compelled to comply. No free choice.
> 
> 2) Kol Isha is NOT a command for the woman, but
> for the MAN, who is to EXCUSE himself from the
> presence of a woman singing!

But if the man has control of a public platform and he prevents the woman
from singing, then de facto she MAY NOT SING. Lorele's situation amounted to
that. The command was "Lorele, YOU MAY NOT SING AT THAT CONCERT."
It was not, Khayim Yoyne, YOU MAY LEAVE when Lorele sings.

However, if you COMPEL the
> man to listen to the woman singing, even punish
> him (derision, or exclusion, for instance), then
> you have effectively FORCED him to listen!

Nothing compels the man to remain in a venue where a woman is singing. He
MAY LEAVE. But when you force a woman into silence, are you not punishing
her?

> And if you?re doing that AGAINST his will, then
> you've taken over the role of the Taliban!


Look, Taliban, shmaliban. The equitable thing is this: If you are in an
environment in  which KOL ISHA is the norm, the woman does not sing in front
of men. No problem..When you are in a mixed environment, and a WOMAN WILL BE
SINGING, men are informed in advance, and they can choose to absent
themselves entirely, or leave WHEN THE WOMAN SINGS.

Anything else is coercion or at least a lack of courtesy and sensitivity.
> 


> GET IT! FREE CHOICE - JUDAISM - FREE CHOICE!
> THE WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO SING!
> THE MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO LEAVE!

I agree with you - Free Choice is what Judaism is and should be all about.
Free choice for men and for women.
> 
> You know, maybe a year or two mandatory study
> in a yeshiva wouldn?t be bad for some of
> the people who pretend to know what they?re talking
> about!

How many yeshivas do you know where women could sit side by side with the
men and study?


Sylvia Schildt
> 
> Alex JACOBOWITZ
> 
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