Re: Kol Isha

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

Alex, with all due respect, I understand the distinction between religious
and political.  Let's recast the scenario with these distinctions clearly
outlined.

Politically, the singer was denied the platform because more weight was
given by presenters to the religious sensibilities of a FEW for whom this
religious law is binding,  than to the political and religious right of the
singer to sing or of the audience to hear her sing in her normal role with
this klezmer group-- in a situation in which neither the singer nor the rest
of the audience feel religiously bound by said law.

No the singer was not punished physically, but she was humiliated and hurt
by the exclusion. She was given a virtual muzzle -- just as insulting and
demeaning as a burqua or chador. (There is no intent to bring in terror,
murder or anything like that, so let's leave that one out.)


The better political way to handle this situation would have been to inform
those FEW for whom Kol Isha is religiously binding, so that they could have
tactfully stepped out of the room during that set. It would have afforded
those gentlemen an opportunity to exercise their moral strength, without
injuring the singer or depriving the rest of the audience.

In fact, come to think of it, I have done it that way several times. A
performer friend of mine who feels bound by Kol Isha did his set once prior
to the female performer, then left. And in another instance, by plan,
arrived just after she left. Both times, it worked very smoothly.


Again, in mixed situations, it comes down to common courtesy. At the time,
our arrangement didn't seem like a big deal.


Sylvia Schildt
 






on 3/2/03 6:18 PM, Alex Jacobowitz at alexbjacobowitz (at) yahoo(dot)com wrote:

> 
>> But if the man has control of a public platform and
>> he prevents the woman
>> from singing, then de facto she MAY NOT SING.
> maybe. But that has nothing to do with the
> law. It?s how one person or one group chooses to
> administer it.
> 
> In this case, people sought a compromise.
> Give and take means just that.
> If the presenters hadn?t stepped in, they
> may have had a political problem, but not
> a religious problem. The compromise agreed
> to was between the parties involved, but
> according to the law, she needn?t have stopped
> singing. It would have been an obligation
> for the men to leave - political problem,
> not religious.
> 
> 
>> Lorele's situation amounted to
>> that. The command was "Lorele, YOU MAY NOT SING AT
>> THAT CONCERT."
> that?s a political decision, but not a religious
> decision.
> 
>> It was not, Khayim Yoyne, YOU MAY LEAVE when Lorele
>> sings.
> see Above.
> 
>> However, if you COMPEL the
>>> man to listen to the woman singing, even punish
>>> him (derision, or exclusion, for instance), then
>>> you have effectively FORCED him to listen!
>> 
>> Nothing compels the man to remain in a venue where a
>> woman is singing. He
>> MAY LEAVE. But when you force a woman into silence,
>> are you not punishing
>> her?
>> 
>>> And if you?re doing that AGAINST his will, then
>>> you've taken over the role of the Taliban!
>> 
>> 
>> Look, Taliban, shmaliban. The equitable thing is
>> this: If you are in an
>> environment in which (the prohibition of? aj)
> KOL ISHA is the norm, the
>> woman does not sing in front
>> of men. No problem..When you are in a mixed
>> environment, and a WOMAN WILL BE
>> SINGING, men are informed in advance, and they can
>> choose to absent
>> themselves entirely, or leave WHEN THE WOMAN SINGS.
> Correct. It was for the administrators to call.
> 
>> Anything else is coercion or at least a lack of
>> courtesy and sensitivity.
> Coercion? Methinks not. Just poor planning.
> 
>> How many yeshivas do you know where women could sit
>> side by side with the
>> men and study?
> what?s the point? Does that determine the quality
> or validity of the law? Women study in their schools,
> men study in theirs. Or do we need to turn
> all of Jewish society upside-down now, too?
> G-d forbid. 
> 
>> Sylvia Schildt
>>> 
>>> Alex JACOBOWITZ
> 
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