Re: breaking the string of pearls without knowing the culture

[HG <tsayeret...>]

First of all, from what I understand, the one who suggested the translation was 
Michal and not Michel (notice the A and not E).
One of the beautiful aspects of Yiddish is its flexibility - even at the times 
Yiddish was a spoken language (more than now) among European Jews, there was a 
difference between the German/Austrian and East European Yiddish. And then as 
the Jews imigrated to the States, they adopted American words.
The beauty of it is its flexibility - it is like an open minded language, based 
on feelings, emotions and social connection. And anyway Yiddisch is originally 
written in Hebrew letters, so any transliteration is not always exact (take the 
word "Yiddish" itself. In German it is "Jiddisch" - so what is correct?)
Hadass
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dick Rosenberg 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 3:11 PM
  Subject: Re: breaking the string of pearls without knowing the culture


  I'm somewhat at a loss to understand exactly what it is that you're offended 
about.

  Are you offended that Michel didn't express his sentiments in gramatically 
correct Yiddish? Then suggest a better phrasing.

  Are you offended that he changed the message of the words from what one hopes 
will be when the Moshiakh comes to his hopes that Israelis and Palestinians 
will one day live in peace? Isn't that part of the folk process? I haven't seen 
anybody getting offended about what the Klezmatics added to ale brider 
expressing their sentiments. I believe here in America we call that respect and 
understanding for those who have a different opinion or outlook than us.

  And finally, I don't understand the "ma yofis" comment at all. The way I 
understand the song it means "You think you're such a hotshot. Your (father, 
cousin, I forget what) greases wheels. Your sister goes with sailors..." What 
does this have to do with Michel's wish for peace in Israel?

  Dick Rosenberg
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Leopold N Friedman 
    To: World music from a Jewish slant 
    Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 8:46 AM
    Subject: Re: breaking the string of pearls without knowing the culture


    Michel,
    Maybe that's what you meant to say. In your attempt to be clever without 
    doing your homework, you've done violence to a fairly polished traditional
    work. I am offended that you just carelessly mistranslated from German, 
    thinking that would be good enough. (e.g., 'ir'n' and that's only the first 
    mistake; I don't know what or who 'palestinenish' or 'sholen' is, etc.)
    Maybe few in your audience actually know any Yiddish and haven't noticed 
    or cared enough to call your mistakes to your attention if you yourself 
haven't
    cared enough to express those words correctly. 

    Yiddish material should not be made into a meta-code, puzzle, or joke for 
    the amusement of German (or even Hebrew) speakers, with reversions to 
    "real" languages when serious points are to be made. Would you change 
    a song in German or French (or Arabic) or even any language you know well 
    without getting confirmation that your changes were, at least 
linguistically, 
    correct and valid? Mistakes that might be forgiveable in the haste of 
everyday
    speech should not be preserved in a performance, if you take that 
seriously. 
    Yiddish material deserves just the same care and respect, or perhaps even 
    more, because it's threatened, as any other. Otherwise, it's mockery.

    Thematically, Shnirele Perele is about 'moshiakh's tsaytn' (Messiah's times)
    and uses Jewish religious and messianic imagery. To inject explicit 
political 
    imagery in the form of a Palestinian "hot button" into this song is to 
change it 
    to tutti frutti. The concept that you've replaced, that the "yidn veln in 
erets yisroel 
    aynshteyn," appears to have been misunderstood. This religious concept, in 
fact,
    predates any concept of a Palestinian people or even the political Zionism 
that 
    established the state of Israel.  Additionally, 'aynsteyn' has connotations 
of being
    (settled) secure and not of "returning." The song asserts that Jews have 
never left, 
    in the theological sense. Without being aware of that, wouldn't it be 
presumptuous 
    to proceed to try to "improve" that lyric?  

    Finally, 'ma yofis' (my original succinct comment) has connotations of  
"shuckin" 
    and "jivin" for the goyim. Sorry, those are "Americanisms," which may have 
to be 
    looked up. 
    Lee

    On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:20:48 +0100 "Michel Borzykowski" <borzykowski (at) 
infomaniak(dot)ch> writes:

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        "...weln di yidn in erets isroel aynsteyn" means:
        The Jews will return to the land of Israel.
        and "... weln di yidn in erets isroel mit ir'n palestinenishen brider 
kol sof in sholen lebn"
        The Jews will finally live in peace in the land of israel with their 
Palestinian brothers.

        Michal