Re: breaking the string of pearls without knowing the culture

[Dick Rosenberg <mashke...>]

I'm somewhat at a loss to understand exactly what it is that you're offended 
about.

Are you offended that Michel didn't express his sentiments in gramatically 
correct Yiddish? Then suggest a better phrasing.

Are you offended that he changed the message of the words from what one hopes 
will be when the Moshiakh comes to his hopes that Israelis and Palestinians 
will one day live in peace? Isn't that part of the folk process? I haven't seen 
anybody getting offended about what the Klezmatics added to ale brider 
expressing their sentiments. I believe here in America we call that respect and 
understanding for those who have a different opinion or outlook than us.

And finally, I don't understand the "ma yofis" comment at all. The way I 
understand the song it means "You think you're such a hotshot. Your (father, 
cousin, I forget what) greases wheels. Your sister goes with sailors..." What 
does this have to do with Michel's wish for peace in Israel?

Dick Rosenberg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Leopold N Friedman 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 8:46 AM
  Subject: Re: breaking the string of pearls without knowing the culture


  Michel,
  Maybe that's what you meant to say. In your attempt to be clever without 
  doing your homework, you've done violence to a fairly polished traditional
  work. I am offended that you just carelessly mistranslated from German, 
  thinking that would be good enough. (e.g., 'ir'n' and that's only the first 
  mistake; I don't know what or who 'palestinenish' or 'sholen' is, etc.)
  Maybe few in your audience actually know any Yiddish and haven't noticed 
  or cared enough to call your mistakes to your attention if you yourself 
haven't
  cared enough to express those words correctly. 

  Yiddish material should not be made into a meta-code, puzzle, or joke for 
  the amusement of German (or even Hebrew) speakers, with reversions to 
  "real" languages when serious points are to be made. Would you change 
  a song in German or French (or Arabic) or even any language you know well 
  without getting confirmation that your changes were, at least linguistically, 
  correct and valid? Mistakes that might be forgiveable in the haste of everyday
  speech should not be preserved in a performance, if you take that seriously. 
  Yiddish material deserves just the same care and respect, or perhaps even 
  more, because it's threatened, as any other. Otherwise, it's mockery.

  Thematically, Shnirele Perele is about 'moshiakh's tsaytn' (Messiah's times)
  and uses Jewish religious and messianic imagery. To inject explicit political 
  imagery in the form of a Palestinian "hot button" into this song is to change 
it 
  to tutti frutti. The concept that you've replaced, that the "yidn veln in 
erets yisroel 
  aynshteyn," appears to have been misunderstood. This religious concept, in 
fact,
  predates any concept of a Palestinian people or even the political Zionism 
that 
  established the state of Israel.  Additionally, 'aynsteyn' has connotations 
of being
  (settled) secure and not of "returning." The song asserts that Jews have 
never left, 
  in the theological sense. Without being aware of that, wouldn't it be 
presumptuous 
  to proceed to try to "improve" that lyric?  

  Finally, 'ma yofis' (my original succinct comment) has connotations of  
"shuckin" 
  and "jivin" for the goyim. Sorry, those are "Americanisms," which may have to 
be 
  looked up. 
  Lee

  On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:20:48 +0100 "Michel Borzykowski" <borzykowski (at) 
infomaniak(dot)ch> writes:
     
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      "...weln di yidn in erets isroel aynsteyn" means:
      The Jews will return to the land of Israel.
      and "... weln di yidn in erets isroel mit ir'n palestinenishen brider kol 
sof in sholen lebn"
      The Jews will finally live in peace in the land of israel with their 
Palestinian brothers.

      Michal