Re: Kol Isha

[Alex J. Lubet <lubet001...>]

Responding to the message of <F79CKDkb9pPFR6sKBEr00006102 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
from jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org:
> 
> sorry for keeping the prior posting long, but it is important to my comment:
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> 
> >From: Alex Lubet <lubet001 (at) umn(dot)edu>
> >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Subject: Re: Kol Isha
> >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:24:54 -0600
> >
> >>>From: "shirona" <shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net>
> >>>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >>>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >>>Subject: Re: Kol Isha
> >>>Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:49:16 -0800
> >>>
> >>>Dear Winston,
> >>>
> >>>OK - I will answer your question - whether I will attend an all-woman 
> >>>event
> >>>where men were excluded.
> >>>
> >>>If I were living in a Female Dominant society, where for the past few
> >>>thousand years the reality was as follows -
> >>>
> >>>*Men were bought and sold for money
> >>>*Men had no political, economical of social rights
> >>>*Men had to share a household with other men, married to one woman
> >>>*Men had to do all the menial jobs
> >>>*Men had to "obey" their wives
> >>>*Men had to walk three steps behind their wives
> >>>*Men were made to bare responsibility for women's weaknesses - "shave 
> >>>your
> >>>hair off - your hair is a turn-on!  Don't sing, your singing is a 
> >>>turn-on!"
> >>>and so on...
> >>>
> >>>If I were living in such a society, knowing my moral core as it is now - 
> >>>I
> >>>would be too SICK to attend such an event.
> >>>
> >>>I hope I answered your question.
> >>******************************************************************
> >>Your answer reminds me of affirmative action.  the issue with
> >>preferential treatment of non whites because they were suppressed in
> >>the past.  I did not own slaves and i did not do any of the things
> >>you discribe above. so therefore,
> >>
> >>no it does not answer the question. unfortunately you are doing
> >>exactly what you critisize jordon for.  You have taken the question,
> >>made it into something nebulous and avoided the direct answer.
> >>
> >We're talking about events here, not systematic exclusion.  There are
> >still times and places where women or men might gather separately to
> >their benefit without injuring those excluded.  Shuls have
> >sisterhoods and brotherhoods.  Schools have men's and women's sports.
> >
> >As for affirmative action, those classes of people who have suffered
> >discrimination continue to suffer discrimination and certain classes,
> >as innocent as certain individuals might be of prejudicial deeds,
> >still reap the benefits of the privileges of their class.  Slavery
> >might have ended in the 19th century, but legal apartheid existed in
> >the US until quite recently and its effects are still being felt.  We
> >approve of reparations for Shoah survivors and their families and
> >even the Jewish people as a body, don't we?  Not everyone who pays
> >them inflicted the hurts.  That's not to say that Affirmative Action
> >is a perfect system.  For one thing, it doesn't seem to be working.
> >Alan Dershowitz has some interesting things to say about it in
> >Chutzpah.
> >
> >--
> >Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
> >Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
> >Adjunct Professor of American Studies
> >University of Minnesota
> >100 Ferguson Hall
> >Minneapolis, MN 55455
> >612 624-7840 (o)
> >612 699-1097 (h)
> >612 624-8001  ATTN:  Alex Lubet (FAX)
> >
> *********************************************************************
> how come everyone (with one exception) wants to give a long disertation 
> which begs the question, and not answer the question even indirectly?
> 
I'm giving a dissertation because you made a statement about affirmative action,
which is a highly charged issue for Jews that needs a great deal of unpacking.  
Besides, I'm not obligating to make terse and inadequate comments.  As to why 
I'm not answering your question, you didn't ask me one.  If I were invited to an
otherwise all-female Seder, I'd be honored and I'd certainly attend, especially 
if it meant getting to meet Shirona and hear her sing.  And I'd bring my guitar 
too if so requested.  I'd go to an all-male Seder as well, if I thought it were 
being conducted in a proper spirit.  Neither, of course, would supercede the 
Seder I attend with my family.



Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
Adjunct Professor of American Studies
University of Minnesota
2106 4th St. S
Minneapolis, MN 55455
612 624-7840 612 624-8001 (fax)

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