Re: What Is Jewish Music?

[elkahn <elkahn...>]

Robert:

According to Webster's Dictionary:

BETRAY: #4a. To reveal unintentionally #4b. To show, indicate

Sorry, just the editor in me.

ALAN MENKEN: composer most noted for Disney animated feature musicals such
as THE LITTLE MERMAID, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, POCAHANTAS (All with lyricist
Howard Ashman), THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME and HERCULES (lyrics, I
believe, Howard Zippel). Also wrote the score for off-BWY musical and film
LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS. (lyrics also by Ashman).

I'm sure if Curt Sachs created that definition of Jewish music, Mr. Fromm
would have cited him, and I'll check next time I run across the quote. Fromm 
was the last person who would have used an idea without  crediting its author. 

Eliott Kahn

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Robert Cohen wrote:

> Re Eliott's recent post (which I seem to have received only as history to 
> Alex Lubet's, not in the original?):  The musicologist Curt Sachs famously 
> (if inadequately) defined Jewish music as music composed by Jews for Jews to 
> use in a Jewish way (i.e., for Jewish purposes).  The composer Herbert Fromm 
> was almost surely quoting/paraphrasing this definition rather than coining 
> it....BTW, I never heard of Alan Menken, but surely Eliott means that his 
> music _reflects,_ not "betrays" (!--means the opposite) the qualities he 
> adduces?  Sorry-the editor in me.  (Another quintessentially Jewish 
> [critical/tikkunidik] vocation?)  Some very thoughtful and intriguing 
> thoughts on this go-round on this topic to date, plus "cutting records and 
> cutting stones"--should be a song lyric.
> 
> 
> >From: "Alex Lubet" <lubet001 (at) maroon(dot)tc(dot)umn(dot)edu>
> >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Subject: Re: What Is Jewish Music?
> >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:33:50 -0500
> >
> >Responding to the message of
> ><Pine(dot)PMDF(dot)3(dot)96(dot)990628095049(dot)539082850B-100000 (at) 
> >JTSA(dot)EDU>
> >from jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org:
> >
> >Well said.  (I wish I'd said it!)  Bravo!
> > >
> > > It's Monday morning and I have to get to work, but I wanted to weigh in 
> >on
> > > this stimulating discussion.
> > >
> > > Herbert Fromm defined "Jewish music" as "music made by Jews for Jewish
> > > purposes." I find this an excellent definition but, perhaps, sometimes 
> >it
> > > can be stretched--just a bit.
> > >
> > > RE: the over-representation of Jews in the Broadway musical: it's an
> > > important item that's long overdue for discussion. THe growth and
> > > flowering of
> > > Tin Pan Alley, the BWY and Hollywood musical from the 1920's through the
> > > 1960's corresponded with the coming of age of so many extraordinarily
> > > gifted songwriters who were either Jewish immigrants (Irving Berlin,
> > > Jule Styne), the sons of Jewish immigrants (George Gershwin, Harold 
> >Arlen)
> > > or the grandsons of Jewish immigrants (Jerome Kern, Richard Rodgers).
> > >
> > > If you look at the music of all the above songwriters, I believe you'll
> > > find more Eastern European and Russian Jewish musical influences 
> >(scales,
> > > rhythmns) in the composers closer to the immigration experience. THe
> > > reasons are obvious; they heard this music in their homes, synagogues 
> >and
> > > communities. (In I. Berlin it's inescapable.)
> > >
> > > But is this "Jewish music?" It's not really an important question, as 
> >long
> > > as their expression was an authentic one. Wolf said himself that
> > > (especially during the twenties) there was a lot of anti-semitism, so 
> >how
> > > can we condemn people who are trying to "fit in" in their host society 
> >by
> > > subverting their obvious ethnic identities? If it's the difference 
> >between
> > > working or not (My mother was fired from a Western Union job during the
> > > thirties, after they found out she was Jewish), I wouldn't be too quick 
> >to
> > > criticize anyone trying to figure out a way to work or become
> > > successful--even if it meant "not advertising."
> > >
> > > So was their expression an authentic one? I mean, were they just 
> >cowering
> > > folks trying not to be identified as Jews and creating bland works for
> > > "the bitch goddess Success." (See *marketing research, *"The Prince of
> > > Egypt," *Barry Manilow, et al.)
> > >
> > > Well, the record speaks for itself: the shows and songs created by these
> > > Jewish immigrants and their offspring may be, perhaps, one of the Jewish
> > > peoples' greatest contributions to twentieth century culture. (Many may
> > > argue this point; go right ahead. But it strikes me that if Jazz is the
> > > African-American's great musical contribution and Country Music the
> > > Celtic-American's greatest contribution, that twentieth-century musical
> > > theatre and Hollywood musicals (the Arthur Freed unit, the RKO
> > > Astaire-Rodgers musicals) would certainly be the American Jews' greatest
> > > contribution to twentieth century culture.)
> > >
> > > BUT IS IT JEWISH MUSIC? I don't know. But there really is a genuine
> > > lyricism and emotionalism in these songs that really gets me "in the
> > > kishkes." Perhaps these are some of the greatest gifts we as a people 
> >have
> > > to offer. Emotionalism, volubility, a genuine love of culture, and a
> > > genuine passion for justice and "rachmones."
> > >
> > > Perhaps this music was so very successful with non-Jews as well because
> > > that is something unique that we have to offer, and that they would love
> > > to learn or take part in.
> > >
> > > Finally, I've heard Alan Menken present his music live (at a BMI 
> >Workshop)
> > > and the music, his playing and singing all betray the above qualities 
> >I've
> > > discussed. He's really a fabulous songwriter and a super musician; Don't
> > > let the dancing tea cups fool you.
> > >
> > > Entschuld, nun muss Ich arbeiten.
> > >
> > > Eliott Kahn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
> >Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
> >Adjunct Professor of American Studies
> >University of Minnesota
> >100 Ferguson Hall
> >Minneapolis, MN 55455
> >612 624-7840 (o)
> >612 699-1097 (h)
> >612 626-2200  ATTN:  Alex Lubet (FAX)
> >
> >
> 
> 
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