Re: Re[7]: Der yidisher tam

[Solidarity Foundation <svzandt...>]

Rich,
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:45:20 -0500, you wrote:
        I see your point.  let me play talmudist with you and give you some
hypothetical cases:

1)  A baal tefillo in yeshiva sang unseaneh Tokef to alouette and hayom
te'amtsienu to Mendelsohn's weeing march (no NOT Wagner's).  At what point in
time can they be considered intrinsically jewish?

2)  nearly all the litvishe yeshiva's I know when they came to America recited
lecho dodi and eyl odon without any melody.  Most of those same yeshivos now
sing these peoms to either chassidic or popular jewish tunes.  have they
violated your definition of tradition by abondoning a nearly atonal recitation?

3)  Chazan ployni in Warsaw adapts a beautiful Polonaise to the davening.  Now
this piece migrates to America.  Is it wrong to substitute a piece by a 'modern"
composer, eg Shlomo Carlebach?
_____

Well, my point was not fully expressed in that message, but if we go to the
next one, you'll understand my answer. To (1): As a craftsman-musician in a
tradition of E. European Jewish music, I can only say that IF and WHEN they
are considered "intrinsically Jewish" in this tradition, it certainly won't 
be MY fault and certainly would represent a deterioration of the tradition.
My job is to do my best to keep that from happening.

(2) they initially violated my definition of tradition when they lost the
tunes they traditionally had, assuming they had them. (Some years ago, I
occasionally davened in a shul on 40th St between 13th & 14th Avenue in
Boro Park, with a very elderly rabbi, -- it was a Litvishe shul, and I
distinctly remember the tune he sang for l'cho dodi -- in minor mode,
slow, 3/4 time -- it didn't sound like something he'd just picked up from
the Top 40...) If they now substitute new tunes, they should be in
keeping with the function and meaning of the text and also with the 
general style used in that shul's tradition.

(3) ask a good bal tfile or klezmer who really knows the tradition of that
shul. I'm sure it's not intrinsically WRONG to do this. My point is, it
all depends on artistic judgement, not halakhic judgement. (Unless in
some way, the choice would actually violate halakha, which doesn't seem too
likely. If this were a question about a tune, or manner of playing, of a
_kale bazetsn_ ("seating of the bride"), in other words, a question about
the klezmer tradition, you know, say, if somebody wanted to do "Sunrise,
Sunet..." Okay, let's go with that, since that's actually come up. It's
become very popular now to do "Sunrise, Sunset.' In planning the music
for the _khupe_, I told the bride I'd prefer not to do it, but she really
wanted it, so I said fine, we'll do it. We had 2 violins and keyboard.
The violinists were both very well versed in old-fashioned Jewish style.
We played the tune in harmony, my partner playing lovely obligatos, but
it still sounded traditional because of the WAY we played it -- and from
that I went into the _Kale bazetsn_. So don't forget, PERFORMANCE STYLE
can often be more important than the actual yune (tune).

The other night I happened to be playing with the same person, but this
time he was on accordion, and singing -- I was playing violin. (This
wasn't a wedding.) We'd had zero rehearsal. He suddenly starts playing
and singing "Tzam'a Nafshi". Now I know this tune as a very up-beat
hasidic number, probably most people know it. But he was doing it in a
slower variant, with a more complex melody, and in an olderr style. It
blew me away, I'd neever heard it done that way. But technically, it was the
"same" tune as the upbeat one most of us know. Same point -- STYLE can
often be, I think usually is, more important than the actual tune. If
you really know the tradition, you can usually (with enough artistry)
make it "intrinsically" Jewish -- although the tune might have to become
almost unrecognizable!
_________
Then you write:
Also, I did not mean that we in America should adapt a new nusach and abaondn
those from the old world.  What I meant was, that since we in Americans come
from diverse places in the old World, including German, sepharadic, etc, we
should feel free to draw on any and all of them to build our own compiste
nusach.  if you re-read my emails, you'll note that I never recommnded
abondoning our reportoire, rather I think it should be expnaded to include a lot
more variety.

I'm sorry for misrepresenting your views.
(I-L)
__________
Then you write:
Where we do disagree is in the value of the Western traiditons, both Dutch and
German.  I think they're highly relevant to a Westernized culture such as we are
in America. You seem to advocate sticking with Eastern European modes,
particularly of the Moldvaian/Roumanian genre.  I say that these modes are not
necessarily any more jewish than lewandowski, rossi, etc. 

I reply:
For you they're not more Jewish, because you identify (at least in part)
with another tradition or traditions (Dutch, German, etc.) For me they are
more Jewish because I identify with that tradition. I don't identify with
Dutch, German, etc.) That's all it comes down to.

By the way, I discovered a few days ago that the whole stylistic question
we've been discussing here was discussed in a three-part essay written
during the 1930s by Yiddish music critic Israel Rabinovich and published
in his _Muzik bay Yidn_ (Montreal 1940). The essay is called: "Tsi filn
di Yenki-yidn epes a tam in yidishn gezang?" (Do "Yankee-Jesws" feel any
taste for Jewish singing). Fortunately -- unlike 99% of Yiddish essays --
this is, I'm pretty sure, available in English, since the whole book was
also put out in an English translation, if you can find it somewhere.
Basically, Rabinovich agrees with you -- though of course, with sadness.
But I should point out that the whole thing is premised on thie idea that
the younger Jews born in America are not interested in the culture and
have no interest in speaking the language of that culture (Yiddish). But
here it is 60 years later, and some of us are interested in taht culture,
and do speak the language, or want to speak it, or are learning it. So
that reopens the question, I think, or keeps it open.

By the way, just for perspective, Rabinovich came from Buten, White Russia,
was the son of a badkhn (wedding jester) and was himself a badkhn and
traditional violin player as a young man, before he emigrated to America.
In America he got a thorough education in western classical music. 
______
Then you write:
Where we strongly agree is that we both respect our traditionas and our
histories nad we'd both like to preserve the musical contributions from the old
world.  My focus is to include ALL of the diverse traidtions from the old world
and not to feel restricted to a single subset.

I also advocate that new pieces build on the old traditionas at elast to an
extent that the innvoator should be well-versed with the "old stuff".  Despite
my belief in Halacho, I am NOT opposed to all liturgical innovation, I am
opposed to careless and thoughtless innovation.  Whether the prcess of
innovation is striclty halachic or not, it should ALWAYS be respectful of our
traditions.

I hope this helps stimulate further thought as well as discussion.  If we're
going to have a "Minhag America", let's build cadillacs and not jalopies.

Reply: Agreed.

Itzik-Leyb