Re[6]: Der yidisher tam

[richard_wolpoe <richard_wolpoe...>]

>And I can listen to Kol nidre from literally dozens of communities and 
they're >all similar.  so we can find a common consensus underlying them.  
If one set of >Jews basis nusach on eg the doina, and virtually NO other 
community does, >doesn't that say something about the melody?  IE that it's 
likely it was a local >adaptation...

>Adaptation from what?

Ok here's my quick point (I have about 300 lines in draft already for the 
long  point and I'd like your email address)

It is now 1850 and I live in Kishinev.  Inspired by all sorts of melodis 
form my local milieu, I come up with a beautiful Adon Olam.  Is sounds 
vaugely Moldavain, vaguely Yiddsh and vagely Romanian.  Fine.  

Now fast forward to 1998.  Is this  a Yiddishe niggun or not?

let's say yes (for the sake of argument)

Now it's 1998 and I live in Teaneck adn Wahsington Heights.  In fluenced by 
the USA, Canada, Eastern Europe, Central Europe, Bach, Beethoven, as weel 
as Koussevitsky, Rosenballt and Carlebach I know compose a brand new Adon 
Olam.

Now tell me REzyl, is my composition any less Jewish?  And is it less 
Jewish if via your reesearch you discover an intimate connection with my 
niggun and one of the following:
1) isty-bitsy
2) The farmer in the Dell
3) Old King Cole

So if MY niggun is jewish, cause I'm Jewish, I can put in any niggun I 
like, and if it catches on shoen gut! I.E>. my 1998 niggun is as kosher as 
the 1850 niggun. 

But if you dismiss my 1998 concoction as clearly Modern American and NOT 
Jewish, so why not do a similar dismissal of the 1850 Kishinve nighn?  It 
would seem to me that there is an underlying assumption that old Esastern 
Eruroepan melodies are ispo facto more Jewish than modern American ones. 
And that dovetails into my Polsih friends assertion that American jews have 
"judaiized what is essnetially Eastern European as opposed to essntiall 
yJewish 9and she uses Sephardic Jewish culture to bakc this up!)
So if a 19th centruy nign from Poland has intrinisc value while a 20th 
century niggun from New Jersey doesn't.   

(And if Imber can adapt an old Romanian folk Melody about a cart for a 
national anthem, why not sing aleinu to a nursery rhyme?)

And a tirvia question for our resident Yiddish scholar - Which country 
pulished the most books and newspapers in the Yiddish language?

Regards,
Rich Wolpoe
reuvenw (at) freeyellow(dot)com