Re: Re[6]: Itsy Bitsy Spider and other Liturgucal Themes

[Paul M. Gifford <PGIFFORD...>]

On this theme, has it occurred to anyone that the tune for "Itsy
Bitsy Spider" may be derived from the liturgical melody?  

On "Farmer in the Dell," I learned that in Romania they know it
with the same words (translated) and melody, so I suspect it was
introduced formally in the primary school curriculum.  It would
appear to be English in origin----an e-mail conversation I once
had on this revealed different words there than what are commonly
used in the U.S, however.

I don't know the history of "Itsy Bitsy," but I wouldn't be surprised
if it's fairly recent, and popularized through schools, as the 
Romanian "Farmer in the Dell."  Maybe it's in the same category as
"I'm a Little Teapot, Short and Stout"----although I don't know
what category that is.  Older kids seem to be able to transmit
true folk rhymes and songs among themselves, but this category seems
to be of demonstrative songs taught to young children by adults.  Thus
it seems not unlikely that this could have been derived, consciously
or unconsciously, by an adult familiar with the liturgical theme.

Paul Gifford