Re: Max Bruch/Kol Nidrei: Redux nokhamol!

[Bob Wiener <wiener...>]

Sylvie,

Thanks your for your clarification.

And thanks even more for correcting my misstatement about Ravel.  Although 
Binder's writing is unclear as to whether he believes that Ravel was Jewish 
(see p.190 of his Studies in Jewish Music), Idelsohn and Rothmuller state 
clearly that he was not.

Bob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sylvie Braitman 
  To: World music from a Jewish slant 
  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:41 PM
  Subject: Re: Max Bruch/Kol Nidrei: Redux nokhamol!


  Sorry, I was not clear with the fascination/repulsion thing.
  I used Ravel and Shostakovitch as examples of using Jewish materials in music 
compositions. I did not mean that they had repulsion feelings toward Jews. In 
their case, rather, it was attraction. This is something that both of them 
stated repeatedly.
  Back to Ravel. He was not Jewish. I read in one of his biographies that 
people thought he was Jewish because there was some doubts and mysteries around 
his mother's origins. She was Basque! 
  The difference also, between Ravel and Shostakovitch using Jewish materials 
with Max Bruch is that the French and Soviet governments, as antisemitic as 
they were , never went as far as the Nazi governement in issuing decrees 
against Jewish music.
  Also in France, the level of involvement of Jews in music (although 
substantial) was never as strong as it was in Germany. So, somehow, it was less 
crucial to "separate".(Although I believe not until Stalin's death were 
Shostakovitch's "From Hebrew Melodies" performed in Soviet Union...)
  If nobody volunteers, I'll work on the Bruch text translation
  .....soon!

  Sylvie
  Original Message ----- 
    From: Bob Wiener 
    To: World music from a Jewish slant 
    Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 12:25 PM
    Subject: Re: Max Bruch/Kol Nidrei: Redux nokhamol!


    Sylvie,

    Why would Ravel's use of Jewish musical themes be an example of a 
fascination/repulsioin thing when he was Jewish himself?  Or do I misread your 
comment?

    Bob
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Sylvie Braitman 
      To: World music from a Jewish slant 
      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:28 AM
      Subject: Re: Max Bruch/Kol Nidrei: Redux nokhamol!


      To Michael Spudic

      ...

      -this tells, again and again about the hate/love relationship between 
German and Jews. The mutual fascination/repulsion thing... A German composer 
writting on a Jewish theme (Ravel did the same, and so did Shostakovitch, and 
who else?). 
      ...

      Voila,

      Sylvie Braitman