Re: because of mixed dancing

[glenn tamir <klezska...>]

I'll take the time later to look up the meaning of the
word "chimerical" - sounds like a good one for
Scrabble - while you may have some doubt, I think the
rest of us don't.

--- Robert Cohen <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com> wrote:
> Though I don't seriously dispute, in particular, the
> issue of the wedding 
> hall (and certainly don't take seriously the rabbi's
> foolish speculation), 
> it bears iterating (and reiterating) that we know
> almost *nothing*--at 
> least, nothing on the level of profoundest
> truth--"beyond a shadow of a 
> doubt"--and any "awareness" to the contrary is
> chimerical.
> 
> --Robert Cohen
> 
> 
> 
> >Fortunately, we in the real world have the
> awareness
> >to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the reason
> for
> >the wedding hall collapse was due to structural
> >failure.  Any attempt to expand the "reasoning"
> beyond
> >that is foolish and self-serving.
> >
> >
> >--- Robert Cohen <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com> wrote:
> > > Though I, too, winced at the foolish and rather
> > > obnoxious statement
> > > regarding the supposed cause of the wedding hall
> > > disaster, I must humbly
> > > respond to sister Lori's post here.  For the
> fact is
> > > that a cosmology of
> > > "cause and effect"--or, as it is usually
> referred
> > > to, reward and
> > > punishment--is very much a part--a basic
> part--of
> > > normative traditional
> > > Judaism.  (Read the second paragraph--after the
> > > "V'auhavtau"
> > > paragraph--following the Shema.)  Obviously each
> of
> > > us believes what (s)he
> > > believes (or tries/struggles to), and this
> belief in
> > > particular is very hard
> > > for many of us Baby Boomers to subscribe to. 
> But to
> > > simply dismiss it as
> > > Lori does is, I think, highly inappropriate in a
> > > Jewish context.
> > >
> > > That being said, I certainly share Rabbi Lau's
> > > belief--he seems, btw, to be
> > > a rather good-hearted man--that expressing this
> > > speculation (that the
> > > disaster resulted from mixed dancing at the
> wedding)
> > > was inappropriate and
> > > wrong--and I would add, even thinking it, in a
> > > sense, is wrong.  Because:
> > >
> > > 1) A secondary but important reason (for not
> saying
> > > it) is that his words
> > > caused pain, and one's words should carefully be
> > > chosen to comfort mourners,
> > > not increase their pain.  This may have been
> Rabbi
> > > Lau's rationale, though
> > > obviously I don't know that.
> > >
> > > 2) An even more profound reason, I believe, is
> that
> > > although Judaism may,
> > > and indeed (however problematically for some of
> us)
> > > does believe in reward
> > > and punishment, the way in which that plays out
> in
> > > this world (and/or the
> > > next?) is by definition in G*d's hands, and
> utterly
> > > beyond our
> > > understanding.  To assert that one knows that B
> > > resulted from A (aside from
> > > being an instance of logically fallacious
> reasoning
> > > by converse) is the
> > > utmost arrogance--just as it is arrogant to
> assert,
> > > as others have in other
> > > discussions here, that one knows what G*d wants
> or
> > > how G*d works.  The rabbi
> > > who made this statement was, I believe,
> essentially
> > > denying, in that
> > > statement, the existence of a G*d whose workings
> are
> > > beyond our
> > > comprehension--which is the only G*d Judaism
> knows.
> > >
> > > In response to such a catastrophe, I believe,
> it's
> > > foolish as well as
> > > arrogant to assert that one knows why it
> > > happens--and also foolish to
> > > dismiss any such possibility as ludicrous
> (though I
> > > understand why one would
> > > wince from this particular explanation, as I
> did).
> > > The Jewish-wisdom
> > > response to the question why (in a spiritual
> sense)
> > > this, or any such
> > > disaster, occurs (aside from the rigorous
> > > investigation that is obviously
> > > needed, in a society that actually sets itself
> up
> > > for this sort of buildings
> > > accident) is what one of my own rebbes
> frequently
> > > said about many things we,
> > > and he, don't understand:
> > >
> > > Who knows?
> > >
> > > --Robert Cohen
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: MaxwellSt (at) aol(dot)com
> > > >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > >To: World music from a Jewish slant
> > > <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > > >Subject: Re: because of mixed dancing
> > > >Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:51:38 EDT
> > > >
> > > >Then it makes you wonder what the Satmar Rabbi
> did
> > > wrong to incur the
> > > >punishment of losing his daughter and
> granddaughter
> > > to a fire, caused by
> > > >lighting yontif candles....
> > > >
> > > >There are those people who see the world in
> terms
> > > of cause and effect.
> > > >They
> > > >wear very tight, smug little glasses.  They are
> not
> > > deeply loved except by
> > > >their own fanatical followers.
> > >
> > >
>
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