Re: A nice surprise?

[Lenka Lichtenberg <lenkal...>]

Pardon my humble involvement in an area where I am more ignorant than most
of you, but as a woman singer who attends traditional egalitarian services
led by a female Rabbi and various congregants, I can relate to the issues
here. I am sorry, but Robert Cohen's remarks insulted me on Shirona's
behalf; I think he gets too personal as he attacks an opposing perspective.
I think the usually friendly manner of this list serves us all better, even
though these types of postings harvest more responses than the
unconfrontational ones and get a healthy (?) discussion going. And to the
point: Maybe all women who believe in female (equal) participation in
religion ARE flaming red feminists - at least, in some people's eyes - and
in that case, there are many of us. But labeling people this or that, will
it ultimately bring us together, or drive us even further apart?

Lenka Lichtenberg
singer-songwriter and Yiddish performer
www.lenkalichtenberg.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Cohen <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: A nice surprise?


> >For me it was a spiritual and emotional experience - seeing "frum" women
> >taking an active and awe inspiring roll in the service, as equal to men
and
> >equal before G-d.  (I was watching the men during the portions where
women
> >were leading, and they  seemed very comfortable. The husbands whose wives
> >were leading looked very proud.   It was all very natural...
>
>
> I have much respect and regard for Moshe Adler and am very interested to
> hear that he's overseeing a traditional but egalitarian service.  I would
> automatically incline to assume that he's coming from a thoughtful and
> serious place in doing so.
>
> Having said that:  Between the lines--or, actually, *in* the lines--of
this
> posting are flashing yellow lights indicating some of the potential
> problems, perhaps, of such services.  *Why,* for example, was our
> correspondent "watching the men during the portions where women were
> leading"--or at any time, for that matter?  One of the reasons why many
> women that I've talked to about this, or whose thoughts I've read about
from
> other's writing and interviewing, *like* a separate space from men is so
> they *won't* be watched during davening--and I can't imagine that the men
> being watched here benefited from being watched--"spiritually and
> emotionally," as our correspondent puts it.  Nor do I imagine that the
women
> at the service would have experienced a deeper kavannah in their davening
if
> *they* were being watched.
>
> It's nice that the husbands of women leading the service "looked very
> proud"--though, again, nobody should have been noticing--but that
suggests,
> again, *less* focus and intensity in prayer (or contemplation, study,
etc.),
> which is what a synagogue service should be about.  This service comes
off,
> at least in this account, as more of a show-and-tell entertainment
> production--that's where one is appropriately "proud" of one's
> spouse's/children's/friend's home run, aria, etc.  Parents, etc., can't
help
> but kvell over their children's bar/bat mitzvah--uncles too.  But that
> should be the exception--and, indeed, in the synagogues, in my experience,
> where bar mitzvah is taken maximally seriously as a religious coming of
age
> and not a pageant-with-party, even parents' kvelling is expressed in a
very
> different way from at Little League.
>
>
> >Later I spent a good half hour talking with the Rabbi,  Moshe
> >Adler.  We should all be blessed with such Rabbis - open minded,
spiritual,
> >a man who is in touch with his own conscience - and has the guts to act
on
> >his beliefs.  Even in the face of a hostile "peer environment".
>
>
> I have, as I said, nothing but regard for Moshe Adler.  But Shirona is,
> sadly, again so wrapped up in self-righteousness that she imagines that
only
> those who agree with her are "in touch with [their] own conscience" or
> "[have] the guts to act on [their] beliefs."  It's a supremely arrogant
and
> ugly notion--but Shirona seems incapable of recognizing that a rabbi who
> *doesn't* choose to go in this--i.e., her preferred--direction may be just
> as in touch with his conscience--and perhaps showing even more guts, since
> he has to defy, among other things, the limitless self-righteousness of
some
> (but not all) Jewish (and non-Jewish, for that matter) feminists.
>
>
> I admire Rabbi Adler, among other reasons, because, in my limited
> experience, he *doesn't* convey this kind of arrogant
> self-righteousness--but, rather, an earnest humility (one of the
> requirements of which is the knowledge and belief that one may be wrong)
in
> seeking to hear what G*d wants of him at any given moment and to serve G*d
> as best he can.
>
> It's an example worth emulating.
>
> --Robert Cohen
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>

---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+