Re: Cymbaly /was Re:/

[Paul M. Gifford <PGIFFORD...>]

Joshua Horowitz <horowitz (at) styria(dot)com> wrote:


> postings. Is the name surname "idiot" (i.e. Cymbaliuk, Cymbalok) an
> enforced name? How did it come into being? Josh

Good question. Must be that the village idiot had kids. I suppose
it would be a surname that is descriptive of character, like a lot
of names. But as off-topic as this seems, it might be useful for
klezmer history if people on this list can identify certain names---
there are Spielman, Musikant (Musiker, Musicus, etc.), Klezmer---and
there are certain ones derived from instruments:  Fiedel (as in Alex), 
Fiedelman, Fiedler (as in Arthur), Zimbler, Zimbalist (as in Efrem), 
Pauker (as in Ana), maybe Bass or Basist. Are there others, for 
example, such as names derived from cryptic klezmer loshn terms? I 
haven't seen a name derived from 'flutist,' for example. There is a 
Polish Jewish records indexing project database at 
http://www.jewishgen.org which is a good source. You can find 
Zimblers here who died in the 1820s and 1830s in Cracow and must have 
played the instrument.

Paul Gifford

> > I don't want to beat this one to death, Josh, but the terms, I'm sure,
> > has a separate etymology. The point I made about the surnames is that
> > some names, like Cymbaliuk, Cymbalok (and others---I collected
> > several from Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Polish, and Lemko sources) derive
> > from the word meaning "simpleton." These could well be older than the
> > names derived from the occupational "Tsymbalistyj," "Zimbler," etc.
> > (which was the point of collecting the names). There are a lot of
> > names derived from the word for "simpleton," in Lithuanian, for
> > example, but none (other than the Jewish 'Zimbler' or 'Zimbalist')
> > derived from the word for the player of the instrument. Perhaps the
> > word is a cognate to the Romanian and Greek words and only converges
> > in Polish as _cymbaly_.
> > 
> > Paul Gifford
> > 
> > 
> > > > Barbara Szydlowicz-Ceglowa, in _Staropolskie instrumenty (?)_
> > > > (1976), gives a detailed etymology of cymbaly; the term used
> > > > for 'dulcimer' appears around the end of the 16th century. Earlier
> > > > it was used for 'bells' and also 'harpsichord.' She doesn't mention
> > > > anything about the association with the word that means 'simpleton.'
> > > > I did look the latter word up in a Polish etymological dictionary,
> > > > but don't remember the details. However, the word IS the origin
> > > > of some Polish, Lemko, and Ukrainian family names, such as Cymbaliuk,
> > > > Cymbal, Cymbalok, etc. It also exists in Lithuanian and Slovak. This
> > > > is probably an example of convergence. I do that the rare Jewish name
> > > > Zimbelman, however, derives from "tsimbler" (like "Fiedelman").
> > >
> 
> 
> 

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