Re: Cymbaly /was Re:/

[Joshua Horowitz <horowitz...>]

I see your point Paul - The term "Ty Cymbaly" comes from a word meaning
simpleton, very likely connected to the term tembel mentioned, and the
the occupation of Tsimbler and the names deriving thereof have a
different etymological source. That's an enticing idea. I know you've
put a lot of energy into surname research, as I see it in many of your
postings. Is the name surname "idiot" (i.e. Cymbaliuk, Cymbalok) an
enforced name? How did it come into being? Josh
 
> I don't want to beat this one to death, Josh, but the terms, I'm sure,
> has a separate etymology. The point I made about the surnames is that
> some names, like Cymbaliuk, Cymbalok (and others---I collected
> several from Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Polish, and Lemko sources) derive
> from the word meaning "simpleton." These could well be older than the
> names derived from the occupational "Tsymbalistyj," "Zimbler," etc.
> (which was the point of collecting the names). There are a lot of
> names derived from the word for "simpleton," in Lithuanian, for
> example, but none (other than the Jewish 'Zimbler' or 'Zimbalist')
> derived from the word for the player of the instrument. Perhaps the
> word is a cognate to the Romanian and Greek words and only converges
> in Polish as _cymbaly_.
> 
> Paul Gifford
> 
> 
> > > Barbara Szydlowicz-Ceglowa, in _Staropolskie instrumenty (?)_
> > > (1976), gives a detailed etymology of cymbaly; the term used
> > > for 'dulcimer' appears around the end of the 16th century. Earlier
> > > it was used for 'bells' and also 'harpsichord.' She doesn't mention
> > > anything about the association with the word that means 'simpleton.'
> > > I did look the latter word up in a Polish etymological dictionary,
> > > but don't remember the details. However, the word IS the origin
> > > of some Polish, Lemko, and Ukrainian family names, such as Cymbaliuk,
> > > Cymbal, Cymbalok, etc. It also exists in Lithuanian and Slovak. This
> > > is probably an example of convergence. I do that the rare Jewish name
> > > Zimbelman, however, derives from "tsimbler" (like "Fiedelman").
> >

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