Re: Verdi and Jewish music

[Agustin . Fernandez <Agustin.Fernandez...>]

Robert,

Well pointed out. This coincidence has always struck me as
remarkable, because it goes beyond a few shared notes: the word
'Addio' in Verdi and 'Adio' in the Ladino song, both sung to exactly
the same intervals, cannot be fortuitous.

Now, has the Ladino song been dated? I would not for a minute suggest
that the (presumably unknown) Sephardic composer copied Verdi, but to
assume automatically that a Ladino song cannot be younger than
one-hundred-and fifty years old would make me uncomfortable. I
dearly love the Ladino repertoire, but the question that irks me is
this: do we rule out the possibility of new songs being composed? Do
we only accept a finite number of old, canonised pieces as Ladino?

If the answer is yes, we rule out new composition, I would be
saddened beyond description. If, on the other hand, we are open to
the idea of this repertoire replenishing itself, then perhaps we
cannot automatically assume that Verdi borrowed from the song in
question.

I hope someone has ideas or information on this point.

As a footnote, may I please ask an archival question. My
cassette recording of that song was pirated many years ago from a
friend who himself had pirated it from an unknown source. He didn't
know who the performer was. It is a male voice of bright, almost
tenor-like quality, and the instrumental arrangements are glossy and
orchestrally lavish. He doesn't sound like a Spanish speaker - for
example, he double-rolls the single 'r' in 'querida'. The opening
song in the album is the gorgeous one that goes  'Abre tu puerta
cerrada que en tu patio luz no hay' and the last is 'Abram Avinu'.
Are these enough clues to identify him? Who is he?

I trust there is enough expertise on this mail-list to address both
questions.

Agustín


> From:          "Robert Cohen" <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
> To:            World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) 
> shamash(dot)org>
> Subject:       Re: Verdi and Jewish music
> Date:          Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:03:11 PST
> Reply-to:      jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org

> This is fascinating, as Verdi's "Addio, del passato" from LA TRAVIATA also
> resembles, and may well (perhaps consciously) borrow from, a Jewish melody,
> namely the Ladino standard "Adio, querida."
>
> I wonder what (evidently) so attracted Verdi to Jewish music.
>
>
> >From: Agustin(dot)Fernandez (at) newcastle(dot)ac(dot)uk
>
> >Has Robert Wiener had a full  answer to his question on Shulamis
> >yet? I certainly don't have a full answer, but Mark Slobin mentions
> >another song in page 190 of Tenement Songs: the Popular Music of the
> >Jewish Immigrants (University of Illinois Press, 1982).
> >
> >This song, Slobin informs us, is entitled 'Ot der brunen, ot der'. He
> >goes on to show similarities between this tune and 'Ah. fors'e lui'
> >from Verdi's  La traviata. However, the tune he quotes next to
> >the Verdi is confusingly titled 'The Oath' and not 'The Well' or
> >anything that may resemble what we are told the Yiddish title means.
> >I leave those who know Yiddish, or the plot of Shulamis, or both, to
> >clarify this inconsistency.
> >
> >Agustín
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dr A. Fernández
University of Newcastle Music Department
Armstrong Building
Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 7RU

Telephone +44 (0)191 222 7636
Fax 0191 222 5242

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