Re: Jewish music connection w/ old jingle?

[Joshua Horowitz <horowitz...>]

I don't know if this question would be agreed upon by Turkish theorists
(ask Zev Feldman) but the mode you mention below, Paul, could be
construed as a compound AND transposed makam (in Turkish classical makam
theory you can combine tetrachords and pentachords of a makam. The makam
in question would then be Nikriz-Saba, derived as follows: The basic
untransposed pentachord of Nikriz is (translated into western values): G
A Bb C#D. The basic tertrachord of a transposed Saba (which would
usually begin on A but is here transposed to the note Hueseyni, or
*middle high E*) is: E F G Ab. If you combine them, you get: G A Bb C# D
E F G Ab. Start the whole thing on Bb and presto, you have the mode you
mention below. In cantorial terminology, the shtayger (mode) would be Mi
Shebarach, but as a complete mode, would start on G. However, I don't
think there are any modes of east or west Ashkenasi Nussach, nor any
basic (i.e. unmodulated) Turkish makams that begin with an augmented 2nd
interval. Although you can force the definition above, I think the mode
is actually a mutated popular mode of Gypsy instrumental music, whose
origins reach back to the Ottoman infiltration of Vallachia. Makam
terminology, arising out of the court theorists and their high-falutin'
music is not usually that important to popular musicians. A definition
of makam usually has to take in a whole number of factors, including
modulation, tuning, etc and is geared toward the larger suites of the
Classical Fasil, and as such would be analogous to calling a dance by
it's modulation scheme. So you wouldn't say that Turkey in the Straw is
a heptatonic Ionic modal piece with a dodecatonic ambitus in the second
prime motif which suggests movement to the dominant and ends with a
pentatonic cadence, would you? Josh Horowitz

> > The mode in question (Sherry has taught me to call it "Ha Shem Molokh," 
> > which I
> > do, to everyone's confusion) has a distinctly Romanian quality.  Beside the
> > basic scale, which is a mixolydian mode, its distinguishing feature is the 
> > use
> > of the flatted third and fifth degrees, only when the melodic line is 
> > turning
> > to ascend again: sort of stepping stones.  You hear this stepping-stone 
> > effect
> > explicitly, repetitively, insistently and eternally iterated in Romanian
> > cybalom patterns.  Greeks and Turks use the same mode, and call it "Rast."
> > When the Greeks play it, it sounds quintessentially Greek.  Just think of
> > "Never on Sunday," or "Zorba's Dance."  When the Turks play it, it sounds...
> > well, everything the Turks play sounds Turkish!  So, maybe one of the
> > well-traveled folk on the list can answer me this:  Rast, Shmast!  What do 
> > the
> > Romanians call that mode?  Or do they just call it Music?
> >
> Not sure if you mean this one, but a lot of old Romanian (or
> eastern Wallachian) Gypsy tunes are in this one, often:
> 
> Bb C# D E F G Ab
  
> They don't know Turkish terminology for modes, but, from what I've
> read, about 1860 they did. I'd be curious if the above relates to
> a Turkish makam. I don't think this is used in 'muzica populara,' or
> peasants' songs, but only in 'muzica lautareasca,' or Gypsy music.
> There's one traditional "wedding song," for listening at lautari
> weddings, in this mode, but in Eb.  It would be interesting to know if this 
> relates to cantorial modes too.  The tunes I'm thinking of also descend in 
> this mode.

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