RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Correction]]]

[Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl...>]

Wolf, 


I was trying to figure out why you would give us such a response and so I 
checked again wherefore this miscommunication stems from.   I went back and 
reread-what you wrote and I find that I misunderstood, probably because I read 
it quickly.   I thought you were saying that _rock n roll_ "was born in  
bordello (or sportin' house) parlors".   Now that I look at it I see that 
squeezed your first two sentences together and read it as one sentence.   You 
did clearly write that _barrelhouse and jazz_ were born in bordello and 
sportin' house parlors, and nothing about rock n roll in that sentence.   So I 
misunderstood and later couldn't understand why you were explaining jazz 
history in your response to me.   Sorry, I am rushing through certain mail.   
Of course, there is no historical doubt that Barrelhouse and jazz was born in  
bordello (or sportin' house) parlors.  But I only learned that from years of 
PBS music documentaries.  BTW, did you see the one on Lieber and Stoller?  
Fascinating history that so few people know about.  I didn't get to see it from 
the beginning but I recommend that doc to anyone here whenever it's 
re-telecasted.   It was recently re-shown.

>One of the Black man's greatest contributions to world civilization is 
>blues music, from which jazz, rock n roll and other music derive.
>Barrelhouse and jazz was born in  bordello (or sportin' house) parlors,
>both to complement and stimulate the upstairs activities.


Now, 

>PS -- I will also mention that the jazz, blues and rock and roll
>scholars I mentioned, all LOVE the music they wrote about. None of them
>ever "besmirched" it, by writing  the truth.   Your choice of this word
>(besmirched) in relation to the historical origins of jazz reveal your
>own hang-ups about this organic relationship and perhaps moral qualms
>about sex-for-pay -- with all due respect.

Now, here is where you misunderstood what I was saying.  I didn't say anything 
about music scholars besmirching any music.   Of course they love it (How much 
Hentoff can one read, I say.)   I said I thought that a claim - my 
misunderstanding - that rock n roll came out of bordellos, had to have been a 
kind of bad rap job that _conservatives_ from the 1950's would have tried to 
give rock n roll in order to limit it's popularity among white kids of that 
time; and contemporary scholars may have accepted such statements as fact since 
no one knew any better.   The American establishment certainly besmirched rock 
n roll early on, especially after Elvis came out shaking up a storm and 
exciting all the girls.   I made no reference to any music before the 1950's.

Now, Wolf you have no idea what yeshiva girls do swallow :), but it's true I 
could never relate to Elvis Presley when he came out or ever after.

I could tell you stories about certain Bais Yaacov girls you wouldn't 
believe....  :)   But it's true, I know nothing about sex-for-pay.


Reyzl





  

   


 

----------
From:  Kame'a Media[SMTP:media (at) kamea(dot)com]
Sent:  Friday, January 08, 1999 12:19 AM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant.
Subject:  [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Correction]]]

Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky wrote:
> 
> Wolf, we all know the history you presented 

Really?

(me - only generally).   But notice that your earlier post to which I
commented, associated rock n roll, which is 1950's music,
 with bordellos.  In this post, you are talking about the 1920s, 30's
and 40's - the period of jazz, blues, dixie, etc.   You ain't a' said
nothin' about rock n' roll and the fifties.   Prohibition was long
over.   So I still don't see any evidence.
> 
> Reyzl
> 
Reyzl:

Please read what I wrote again so you don't twist my words to suit your
own insistent beliefs.  Where do you think the jazzbands were primarily
employed,  at  church socials and tea parties?  

This is what I wrote:
 > >One of the Black man's greatest contributions to world civilization
is
> > >blues music, from which jazz, rock n roll and other music derive.
> > >Barrelhouse and jazz was born in  bordello (or sportin' house) parlors,
> > >both to complement and stimulate the upstairs activities.

Nowhere in the aforementioned paragraph  do I  directly link rock and
roll to the whorehouse, but I most certainly do link jazz to it. 

But, since you insist on forcing the issue,  I will further mention that
the word "jazz" itself is a euphemism for (sexual) coming.  And
furthermore,  the early jazzmen played till they intentionally "creamed
their jeans".

With your yeshiva background, you  may  find that difficult to swallow.

And, no, I didn't learn that in any college course, so I can't cite
chapter and verse; sorry.  This is just a little musicians' lore I
picked up on the road.  I think it came up in a conversation  with Tim
Hardin (O"H) years ago;  I was just a kid and kids tend to remember this
sort of "racy" stuff.

I'm sure that with a little research, you will be able to find an
acceptable academic source for the origin of the word "jazz", though.

Wolf

PS -- I will also mention that the jazz, blues and rock and roll
scholars I mentioned, all LOVE the music they wrote about. None of them
ever "besmirched" it, by writing  the truth.   Your choice of this word
(besmirched) in relation to the historical origins of jazz reveal your
own hang-ups about this organic relationship and perhaps moral qualms
about sex-for-pay -- with all due respect.