RE: Borrowing melodies for liturgy

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

Two observations re borrowing melodies for liturgy (I've changed the 
subject from the useless "Correction," retained by previous 
posters--which surely doesn't indicate the real subject!):  On a playful 
note, it may interest Dick Rosenberg and other readers to know that 
"What Do You Do w/ a Drunken Sailor" was, in fact, used by the Orthodox 
folk group Dveykus, in their second album, as the melody for "Od 
Yishama"--from one of the Sheva Brachos, or wedding blessings.  They 
charmingly attribute the music (words are essentially from Jeremiah) to 
the "Dubliner Rebbe."  More seriously, the question of using existing 
(folk, popular, etc.) melodies for prayer has been the subject of 
numerous rabbinic opinions and diktats, reflecting diverse, sometimes 
conflicting positions.  (The practice was already in use in Second 
Temple times, which we know from the rabbis condemning it--in the 
Talmud.  The practice, and its rabbinic condemnation, is pretty much a 
constant in Jewish music history.  On the other hand, borrowing 
melodies--musicology calls this "contrafacta," new words to an existing 
melody--may be as old as the Psalms. But I digress.)            One 
cantor, I believe Sephardic and based in Israel, and who _is_ willing to 
appropriate non-Jewish melodies for prayer, takes the position that 
borrowed melodies are kosher only if the congregation _doesn't_ know the 
origin of the original--i.e., doesn't recognize it, w/ its (presumably 
not necessarily "religious") associations.  For what it's worth, I think 
it's conditional:  _If_ the original, known melody distracts--or 
continues to distract after it's been tried--then don't use it (except 
on Purim).  But sometimes the associations and resonance of the original 
can actually _enhance_ the prayer (or the praying).  I gave a talk on 
borrowing melodies in prayer just last weekend, in D.C. (I do that 
occasionally, and have written on the subject too) and I taught the 
group "Eliyahu Hanavi" (which is traditionally sung Sat. night, at the 
end of Shabbes, not just at the Passover seder) to Dylan's "The Times 
They are a Changin'"--not even quite picked up by everybody at first.  
"Eliyahu" is a messianic _piyyut_ (hymn) and Dylan's is a messianic song 
(I learned this shidduch from Jeff Oboler of my old Bet Cafe chevra in 
NYC)--it's a wonderful pairing! I'd welcome hearing of successful 
borrowings; I'm looking to see if I have a recording of "Saint Anne's 
Reel," which Rachel Heckert reports using for Shir Hamaalot (i.e., Ps. 
126).


>From owner-jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org Tue Jan  5 06:31:36 1999
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>From: Dick Rosenberg <drosenberg (at) dht(dot)com>
>To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: RE: Correction
>Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:23:52 -0500
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>I think we're talking about two different things here:
>
>1 - Whether a chord progression can have connotations in and of itself
>
>2 - Once a chord progression has connotations of whatever kind, because
>of lyrics associated with it in a particular song, how tightly bound
>those connotations are to the set of lyrics, or whether it can have
>other connotations
>
>This may get a little bit too musical theory for some, but it's the 
only
>way I know to explain it.
>
>Let's take a chord progression
>
>C       C        C  F   G7      C  G7 C  G7  C F    G7 C
>/ / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | /
>/ / /
>
>and another chord progression
>
>Am     Am     G       G       Am     Am     G       G Am
>/ / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | /
>/ / /
>
>If one plays the two progressions the first one, which is in major,
>could be the chords to a song in many styles and connotations.
>Could be a children's song (sounds something like Old McDonald), a folk
>song (Kumbaya), a Beatles song (OoBladee, OoBlada). Sounds to me kind 
of
>light and airy, probably good or neutral, certainly not an evil
>connotation. Those are the connotations I get from progression #1
>
>Progression #2, which is minor, has a different set of connotations. At
>first I only got a Jewish connotation from #2. Of course a Jewish
>connotation to me would be good, positive, reverent, etc. Then I 
started
>staring at the chords and realized that they could easily be very
>different. The chords are almost identical to those of What do you do
>with a Drunken Sailor? Obviously a very different set of connotations.
>
>In fact the two progressions are different settings of the same song,
>David Melech Yisrael, the first the "traditional" one (although I'm 
sure
>the hand movements are not so traditional :-), the second Shlomo
>Carlebach's version.
>
>So that would seem to support argument #2, that our perception and
>connotation of a chord progression is based on the songs we associate
>with that progression and the feelings and connotations that we have
>toward that song or those songs.
>
>On the other hand a chord progression that is composed of all D and Cm
>chords (to me) just HAS to be Klezmer. I cannot fathom any other kind 
of
>music that has that progression. Similarly a chord progression of E F G
>is Spanish Flamenco. Again I cannot think of it being anything else. 
And
>Klezmer and Spanish Flamenco have connotations to me (why do I want to
>put a rose between my teeth?).
>
>On the other other hand it could be argued that Klezmer and Spanish
>Flamenco by and large is intrumental music only, and if there were more
>songs with words assoiated with these styles, then they would fall into
>argument #1.
>
>There you go, I'm disagreeing with myself in the same message. Now that
>can only be Jewish.
>
>Dick Rosenberg
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Eliezer Kaplan [SMTP:zelwel (at) earthlink(dot)net]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 8:24 AM
>>To:   World music from a Jewish slant.
>>Subject:      Re: Correction
>>
>>>Music is not simply melody - it also tempo and rhythm and 
orchestration
>>>and accent.  When I hear the chords from "Sunshine of Your Love" at a
>>>chaseneh, they are always delivered identically in all ways to the 
way
>>>they appear in the original recording.  And as many people will agree 
-
>>>the essence of rock *is* tempo and rhythm, not melody.  
>>>The melody itself of "Light My Fire" may nor may not be suitable for
>>>other uses, but to play it in a similar fashion to the way the Doors 
did
>>>it is to play rock, pure and simple, with all the associations that 
that
>>>sort of rock number has.
>>>
>>>Rochel Sara Heckert
>>>
>>
>>Aw, come on. I'm sure that if you'd heard some silly anglicized lyris 
to
>>"Sunshine of Your Love' with lots of Hashem's and ai-ai-ai's in it 
first
>>and repeatedly you'd associate those particular words with the melody
>>rather than the ones that you know. A chird progression can be neither 
good
>>nor bad- except in the musical sense, and even then it's a matter of 
opinion.
>>                      Ellie Kaplan
>
>


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