Re[2]: Adon Olam

[richard_wolpoe <richard_wolpoe...>]

     Dear Elliot and List,
        My background is not as deep as many of you out there.  however, 
     let me share with you a bit of insight that may be useful in 
     understanding this better.
     
        Somewhere somehow tunes are composed, formulated what-have-you.  
     They are probably folk tunes.  They become popular.  The high-brows 
     such as Mozert or Smetana or Dvorak incoroporate these melodies into 
     what might be termed symphonic music.  the spiritual/religous folks 
     adapt the same type of melody into the liturgy.  The alcoholics and 
     party animals might make a nice drinking ditty out of it.  The 
     nationalisists may dapt it for patriotic purposes.
     
   Our earlier thread on "hatikvo" is a good case in point.

        Liturgy:  German congregations (eg Breuer's) uses this tune for v'lu 
moshi'im on both Chanukkah nad Purim.  Rabbi Breuer was not very Hatikov 
friednly so zionistic affiliation can be ruled out.

        Patrotic:  Both Hatikva and Die Moldau

        High Brow:  Again Die Moldau.
        
        Folk tune:  The Romaninan folk tune having to do about donkey and a cart
(as best as I can recall)

        Party-goers: Well, it is a well_known fact that Imber enjoyed his 
schnapps.  <smile>

        Ok, who stole from whom?  I think the best point to be made (as was made
by Rabbi/Cantor Steve Langnas in a lecture on this subject) is that the original
tune was adapted by MANY different composers for diverse use.  The root melody 
used as a drinking song may have been adapted independently into Adon Olom or 
into Ein Keloheinu without ANY knopwldge of a parallel adpatation into a 
drinking song.

        yes, one may demonstrated taht the drinking melody was used before the 
liturgical use.  But it is difficult to prove that it was directly adapted from 
the drinking song; in fact it's unlikely.

        So, if one were to adapt the William Tell Overture into something 
liturgical, it could be claimed that the composer was influenced by the Lone 
Ranger or Tonto, or just perhaps by Rossini.  go prove who's right?!

        A rather iconoclastic Jew I knew claimed that Maoz Tsur was stolen from 
a Lutheran hymn  ( I forget the name).  I don't think so.  I think both Martin 
Luther and the 15/16th century Jews adapted an even older German folk melody  
for their own diverse purposes.

        Remember, I believe Darwin said that humans and monkeys are descended 
from a common ancestor and NOT that humans are descended from monkeys.  There is
a subtle but useful distinction here.

Regards,
Rich Wolpoe

_____________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Adon Olam 
Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> at Tcpgate
Date:    8/10/98 10:20 AM


I don't believe this is correct. You might be referring to "En Keloheynu," 
which, first published in 1841 by Julius Freudenthal, resembles a German 
hymn "Grosser Gott Wir loben Dich." (A.Z. Idelsohn, Jewish Music: Its 
Historical DEvelopment, 1929, p.239). 
     
The final word on the matter should be Eric Werner. In his excellent book 
on Ashkenazy Jewish music, "A Voice Still Heard" (1976), he mentions the 
morning High Holiday Adon Olam as being derived from an early GErman tune. 
But this is not the traditional Sabbath "Adon Olam."
     
The point I want to make is that I've always believed that we Jews' genius 
for borrowing is that we take
the best of the host culture and siphon it through our own sensibilities 
and make it our own. (And -- fortunately in the case of America -- the 
rest of the world's) It's a sad indictment of our religious institutions 
indeed if we can sing something as banal as "The Fintstones" jingle to 
"The Lord of All." What's next? "Sugar, Sugar" to "Kol Nidre?"
     
Eliott -- not having a good Monday -- Kahn 
Music Archivist
Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary 
New York, New York
     
     
     
 On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Kame'a Media wrote:
     
> Hi Aaron:
> Re: Adon Olam sung to the tune of "The Flintstones:
> It might make you feel better to know that the melody to the
> "traditional" Adon Olam was borrowed from a 17th century German drinking 
> song.
> "The more things change, "...etc.
> Wolf
> 
>